Dha or Dao?

Mark · 14th August 2006, 01:14 AM

Egerton calls these "fighting" dao, as distinguished from the shorter and heavier "dao," in the text, but referring to one illustrated (#205, Fig. 19) he just calls it a sword. There is a Jingpaw word, "nhtu," which means "sword" (according to Leach, Political Systems of Highland Burma) but I don't know if it refers to the longer or shorter version.

I'm a little up in the air at the moment about whether to call these dao or dha, but I favor dha. I have never seen where or why swords from the Naga & Kachin hills were even called "dao," for one thing. "Dha" is a Burmese word, though, so its probably not what a Jingpaw would have called his sword.

Something curious: looking at the tip of the scabbard, the two halves appear mis-matched, but not at the top.

Andrew · 14th August 2006, 01:27 AM

Once again, we find ourselves struggling to put a name to a weapon. I guess we're talking about two things here, really. First, what do we call this thing and, second, where does it fit into our current understanding.

I tend to try and neatly catagorize weapons and give them names that, even if not strictly accurate, allow me to differentiate between forms. Mark is correct: probably the best name for the eBay example is "Kachin sword". But without more information from someone in the region, we're left to our own devices.

Lew · 14th August 2006, 01:28 AM

Mark

The bottom of the scabbard is busted up pretty bad I don't think they are mismatched just broken.

Lew

RhysMichael · 14th August 2006, 01:33 AM

Mark or Andrew, what is the phoenetic for dha. Could it be that it could sound like dao to someone who was raised speaking English. I was just thinking how this could be like the whole Tulwar/Talwar ; Pedang/Peudeung things

Tim Simmons · 14th August 2006, 07:30 AM

I think RhysMicheal may well be right about the same name heard in different dialects add to confusion. One thing I know for sure I have always found a simple pleasure playing with my Dao Dha.

Flavio · 14th August 2006, 09:04 AM

Thank you to all of you gentlemen!!!

Mark, i think that Lew is right, the scabbard seems broken but i will post better pictures when it's arrived (hope soon

). I know tha is quite difficult to say, but in your opinion the writing is "original"? Thanks

Ian · 14th August 2006, 02:25 PM

John:

I don't think dah/dha and dao would be readily confused phoetically. Dha is pronounced like a short "ah" with a "d" in front of it, whereas dao is pronounced is pronounced like the "bough" of a tree, except with a "d" instead of a "b". Dao is of Chinese origin as far as I know, whereas Dha is Burmese -- two dissimilar languages with some overlap. Both mean sword in their respective languages.

Perhaps Philip T. or Scott R. could help further on the Chinese form.

The Thai version Daab/Dahb/Darb is pronounced like "garb" but with a "d" instead of a "g".

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

Mark or Andrew, what is the phoenetic for dha. Could it be that it could sound like dao to someone who was raised speaking English. I was just thinking how this could be like the whole Tulwar/Talwar ; Pedang/Peudeung things

RhysMichael · 14th August 2006, 07:53 PM

Thanks Ian
Thats one problem I really have is figuring out how these words are pronounced in their native language. It particularly true when its a tonal language. Everything I say comes out southern US style

cozun · 16th August 2006, 08:05 PM

Alrighty then, my turn.

The sort of sword or machete, or Dao or Dha (Darb as I say it) that is seen in one of the posts, with the opened sheath, is coming from Birma.
To be be precise it comes from the Northwest of the country. The fabrication, style and shape is similar to the one of the Naga tribe.
However, it seems that it comes from the Rawang tribe which is a minority in the Kachin group.
I sourced a few of the last ones available for sale in Thailand just last week. Only problem: the price.

See attached some pictures of these 2 blades, and an illustration elaborating the story/origin of the people the weapons really belong to.
The illustration are found page 22-25 in:
The vanishing tribes of Birma
Editor - Seven Dials
Writer - Richard K. Diron
ISBN 1 84188 032 9

Now I trust this little pepper and salt is useful info to several of you.

Serge from coZun.

Andrew · 16th August 2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozun

Alrighty then, my turn.

The sort of sword or machete, or Dao or Dha (Darb as I say it) that is seen in one of the posts, with the opened sheath, is coming from Birma.
To be be precise it comes from the Northwest of the country. The fabrication, style and shape is similar to the one of the Naga tribe.
However, it seems that it comes from the Rawang tribe which is a minority in the Kachin group.
I sourced a few of the last ones available for sale in Thailand just last week. Only problem: the price.

See attached some pictures of these 2 blades, and an illustration elaborating the story/origin of the people the weapons really belong to.
The illustration are found page 22-25 in:
The vanishing tribes of Birma
Editor - Seven Dials
Writer - Richard K. Diron
ISBN 1 84188 032 9

Now I trust this little pepper and salt is useful info to several of you.

Serge from coZun.

Hi Serge, welcome.

Diran's book does have some helpful information, and his photos are great (not suprising, as he's a photo-journalist, I believe).

16th August 2006, 08:05 PM	#9
cozun Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ayutthaya - Thailand - most of the time that is. Posts: 7	The Rawang, a tribe from the Kachin minority group Alrighty then, my turn. The sort of sword or machete, or Dao or Dha (Darb as I say it) that is seen in one of the posts, with the opened sheath, is coming from Birma. To be be precise it comes from the Northwest of the country. The fabrication, style and shape is similar to the one of the Naga tribe. However, it seems that it comes from the Rawang tribe which is a minority in the Kachin group. I sourced a few of the last ones available for sale in Thailand just last week. Only problem: the price. See attached some pictures of these 2 blades, and an illustration elaborating the story/origin of the people the weapons really belong to. The illustration are found page 22-25 in: The vanishing tribes of Birma Editor - Seven Dials Writer - Richard K. Diron ISBN 1 84188 032 9 Now I trust this little pepper and salt is useful info to several of you. Serge from coZun. Attached Images

14th August 2006, 01:14 AM	#1
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Egerton calls these "fighting" dao, as distinguished from the shorter and heavier "dao," in the text, but referring to one illustrated (#205, Fig. 19) he just calls it a sword. There is a Jingpaw word, "nhtu," which means "sword" (according to Leach, Political Systems of Highland Burma) but I don't know if it refers to the longer or shorter version. I'm a little up in the air at the moment about whether to call these dao or dha, but I favor dha. I have never seen where or why swords from the Naga & Kachin hills were even called "dao," for one thing. "Dha" is a Burmese word, though, so its probably not what a Jingpaw would have called his sword. Something curious: looking at the tip of the scabbard, the two halves appear mis-matched, but not at the top.

14th August 2006, 01:27 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Once again, we find ourselves struggling to put a name to a weapon. I guess we're talking about two things here, really. First, what do we call this thing and, second, where does it fit into our current understanding. I tend to try and neatly catagorize weapons and give them names that, even if not strictly accurate, allow me to differentiate between forms. Mark is correct: probably the best name for the eBay example is "Kachin sword". But without more information from someone in the region, we're left to our own devices.

14th August 2006, 01:28 AM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Mark The bottom of the scabbard is busted up pretty bad I don't think they are mismatched just broken. Lew

14th August 2006, 01:33 AM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Mark or Andrew, what is the phoenetic for dha. Could it be that it could sound like dao to someone who was raised speaking English. I was just thinking how this could be like the whole Tulwar/Talwar ; Pedang/Peudeung things

14th August 2006, 07:30 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I think RhysMicheal may well be right about the same name heard in different dialects add to confusion. One thing I know for sure I have always found a simple pleasure playing with my Dao Dha.

14th August 2006, 09:04 AM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you to all of you gentlemen!!! Mark, i think that Lew is right, the scabbard seems broken but i will post better pictures when it's arrived (hope soon ). I know tha is quite difficult to say, but in your opinion the writing is "original"? Thanks

14th August 2006, 07:53 PM	#8
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Thanks Ian Thats one problem I really have is figuring out how these words are pronounced in their native language. It particularly true when its a tonal language. Everything I say comes out southern US style