Dha or Dao?

RhysMichael · 13th August 2006, 10:30 PM

I agree kachin but I would call it a dha. A couple of years ago I would have called it a dao and placed it as assam. A good find

http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image422.jpg

http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0002.htm

http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0021.htm

http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0048.htm

http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0055.htm

Andrew · 14th August 2006, 12:45 AM

I agree with JT. A Kachin (Jingpaw) dha. We've discussed these before, I believe.

These are, indeed, very similar to dao of the region, but there are distinctions. A longer, cylindrical handle, a longer/more slender blade with less pronounced flare from forte to the tip, and a two-sided scabbard.

Probably a transitional form between this dao (top) and dha (bottom):

Mark · 14th August 2006, 01:14 AM

Egerton calls these "fighting" dao, as distinguished from the shorter and heavier "dao," in the text, but referring to one illustrated (#205, Fig. 19) he just calls it a sword. There is a Jingpaw word, "nhtu," which means "sword" (according to Leach, Political Systems of Highland Burma) but I don't know if it refers to the longer or shorter version.

I'm a little up in the air at the moment about whether to call these dao or dha, but I favor dha. I have never seen where or why swords from the Naga & Kachin hills were even called "dao," for one thing. "Dha" is a Burmese word, though, so its probably not what a Jingpaw would have called his sword.

Something curious: looking at the tip of the scabbard, the two halves appear mis-matched, but not at the top.

Andrew · 14th August 2006, 01:27 AM

Once again, we find ourselves struggling to put a name to a weapon. I guess we're talking about two things here, really. First, what do we call this thing and, second, where does it fit into our current understanding.

I tend to try and neatly catagorize weapons and give them names that, even if not strictly accurate, allow me to differentiate between forms. Mark is correct: probably the best name for the eBay example is "Kachin sword". But without more information from someone in the region, we're left to our own devices.

Lew · 14th August 2006, 01:28 AM

Mark

The bottom of the scabbard is busted up pretty bad I don't think they are mismatched just broken.

Lew

RhysMichael · 14th August 2006, 01:33 AM

Mark or Andrew, what is the phoenetic for dha. Could it be that it could sound like dao to someone who was raised speaking English. I was just thinking how this could be like the whole Tulwar/Talwar ; Pedang/Peudeung things

Tim Simmons · 14th August 2006, 07:30 AM

I think RhysMicheal may well be right about the same name heard in different dialects add to confusion. One thing I know for sure I have always found a simple pleasure playing with my Dao Dha.

Flavio · 14th August 2006, 09:04 AM

Thank you to all of you gentlemen!!!

Mark, i think that Lew is right, the scabbard seems broken but i will post better pictures when it's arrived (hope soon

). I know tha is quite difficult to say, but in your opinion the writing is "original"? Thanks

Ian · 14th August 2006, 02:25 PM

John:

I don't think dah/dha and dao would be readily confused phoetically. Dha is pronounced like a short "ah" with a "d" in front of it, whereas dao is pronounced is pronounced like the "bough" of a tree, except with a "d" instead of a "b". Dao is of Chinese origin as far as I know, whereas Dha is Burmese -- two dissimilar languages with some overlap. Both mean sword in their respective languages.

Perhaps Philip T. or Scott R. could help further on the Chinese form.

The Thai version Daab/Dahb/Darb is pronounced like "garb" but with a "d" instead of a "g".

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

Mark or Andrew, what is the phoenetic for dha. Could it be that it could sound like dao to someone who was raised speaking English. I was just thinking how this could be like the whole Tulwar/Talwar ; Pedang/Peudeung things

RhysMichael · 14th August 2006, 07:53 PM

Thanks Ian
Thats one problem I really have is figuring out how these words are pronounced in their native language. It particularly true when its a tonal language. Everything I say comes out southern US style

13th August 2006, 10:30 PM	#1
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	I agree kachin but I would call it a dha. A couple of years ago I would have called it a dao and placed it as assam. A good find http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image422.jpg http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0002.htm http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0021.htm http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0048.htm http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/C0055.htm

14th August 2006, 12:45 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I agree with JT. A Kachin (Jingpaw) dha. We've discussed these before, I believe. These are, indeed, very similar to dao of the region, but there are distinctions. A longer, cylindrical handle, a longer/more slender blade with less pronounced flare from forte to the tip, and a two-sided scabbard. Probably a transitional form between this dao (top) and dha (bottom): Attached Images Last edited by Andrew; 14th August 2006 at 01:10 AM.

14th August 2006, 01:14 AM	#3
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Egerton calls these "fighting" dao, as distinguished from the shorter and heavier "dao," in the text, but referring to one illustrated (#205, Fig. 19) he just calls it a sword. There is a Jingpaw word, "nhtu," which means "sword" (according to Leach, Political Systems of Highland Burma) but I don't know if it refers to the longer or shorter version. I'm a little up in the air at the moment about whether to call these dao or dha, but I favor dha. I have never seen where or why swords from the Naga & Kachin hills were even called "dao," for one thing. "Dha" is a Burmese word, though, so its probably not what a Jingpaw would have called his sword. Something curious: looking at the tip of the scabbard, the two halves appear mis-matched, but not at the top.

14th August 2006, 01:27 AM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Once again, we find ourselves struggling to put a name to a weapon. I guess we're talking about two things here, really. First, what do we call this thing and, second, where does it fit into our current understanding. I tend to try and neatly catagorize weapons and give them names that, even if not strictly accurate, allow me to differentiate between forms. Mark is correct: probably the best name for the eBay example is "Kachin sword". But without more information from someone in the region, we're left to our own devices.

14th August 2006, 01:28 AM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Mark The bottom of the scabbard is busted up pretty bad I don't think they are mismatched just broken. Lew

14th August 2006, 01:33 AM	#6
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Mark or Andrew, what is the phoenetic for dha. Could it be that it could sound like dao to someone who was raised speaking English. I was just thinking how this could be like the whole Tulwar/Talwar ; Pedang/Peudeung things

14th August 2006, 07:30 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I think RhysMicheal may well be right about the same name heard in different dialects add to confusion. One thing I know for sure I have always found a simple pleasure playing with my Dao Dha.

14th August 2006, 09:04 AM	#8
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you to all of you gentlemen!!! Mark, i think that Lew is right, the scabbard seems broken but i will post better pictures when it's arrived (hope soon ). I know tha is quite difficult to say, but in your opinion the writing is "original"? Thanks

14th August 2006, 07:53 PM	#10
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Thanks Ian Thats one problem I really have is figuring out how these words are pronounced in their native language. It particularly true when its a tonal language. Everything I say comes out southern US style