Keris Bugis Raja Gundala

Zack_antik · 10th August 2006, 12:51 PM

Dear members

I'm new to this forum, i would like to know your opinion or comments about this Bugis Keris that i've bought. I was told that it is pamor tiban called Raja Gundala, it's from old blade with new ivory fittings, i really need you guys or those expert on keris to comment on it. Thanks.
Rgds,
Zack

Lei Shen Dao · 18th May 2006, 01:49 AM

Dear members

I would like to know your opinion about this Javanese Keris that I have in my possesion the last year.

I was told that it is pamor Raja Guntala and the name of it is Belanak Makan Makani / "the Belanak (fish) eating his food".
You can see quite clearly the head of a fish at the base. Along the length of the blade is a larger fish chasing a smaller one. At the base, above the fish head, is the form of a man swimming.

It is very old (at least I was told) but it would be interesting to know the possible era, dapur etc.

Thanks guys

Rick · 18th May 2006, 02:04 AM

Lei ,
But I just don't see what you are describing in the pamor .
I do see a form that reminds me of a Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker ; but I see no fish head nor any man swimming .

I guess that sometimes looking at pamor and interpreting it is like watching clouds .
Then again that is just me ; your and others' mileage may vary .

Again , I speak only for myself and certainly as no 'expert' .

Rick

Lei Shen Dao · 18th May 2006, 02:47 AM

Hi Rick

You are by far a lot more "expert" than me at least.

Yes, I can understand your point and of course this is the case many times with the "pamor reading

".

But, if you see in the first picture you will see the image of a fish chasing a smaller one to eat it. The name of the fish is Belanak (a wild fish in Indonesia I was told...).
In the second picture in the base is a form that remindes the head of a fish (like an epinephelous) with it's mouth slightly open. Above the head of the fish and in the left side, is seems that there is the form of a man (head, two legs) if you see it from a diagonal view. If you see the blade form close distance, it is more obvious.

The interesting thing is that the name of the pamor from the seller was Belanak Makan Makani (named after the form of the Belanak), something that I have never encounder before.

In any case though, you are correct. Fantasy can play many games to a wissfull mind

Thanks for your post.

Lei Shen Dao · 18th May 2006, 02:48 AM

By the way, what is "Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker"

Lei Shen Dao · 20th May 2006, 01:21 AM

Guys
Thank you very much for trying to help me.

You are very helpfull

Pangeran Datu · 20th May 2006, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lei Shen Dao

By the way, what is "Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker"

An American icon, the GOLDFISH cracker. Pepperidge Farm has produced its small goldfish-shaped cheddar cheese cracker since 1962.

WRT your keris:
Yes, I can see that you can call it a Raja Gundala - Ikan Belanak Makan Makane.
A Raja Gundala usually occurs as a dwiwarna, the other being e.g. Beas Utah, Pulo Tirta.
Try to see whether the Raja Gundala is Tiban or carved/etched, the former being more prized by connoiseurs for its divine qualities.

Regards.

Ian · 10th August 2006, 01:06 PM

.

Henk · 10th August 2006, 01:11 PM

Zack,

Welcome to the forum. You'd better post your questions about keris in the forum Keris Warung Kopi. But i suppose our moderators will move this threat to that place.

Better show us some pictures of the entire blade and the complete keris with scabbard and ukiran.
My first impression is that this blade is javanese, mounted in a Sumatran dress. Not very unusual because javanese blades where highly appreciated and brought to Sumatra.

Rick · 10th August 2006, 03:05 PM

Agree with Henk ; from what I can see the blade has a Jawa style look to it .
More pictures please .

David · 10th August 2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

My first impression is that this blade is javanese, mounted in a Sumatran dress. Not very unusual because javanese blades where highly appreciated and brought to Sumatra.

This well may be Henk, but it is also my understanding that the Sumatran and Javanese courts where somewhat linked for a time and that the form of Sumatran pieces where styled after the Javanese during this period. I'd have to do some research to come up with the specifics of the whens and whys. I would also like to see the full length of the blade, but i wouldn't rule out that it may truly have a Sumatran origin.

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2006, 11:45 PM

It is a bit difficult to be too definite about blade origin when all that can seen is a part of the sorsoran, and the blade is being viewed wrong way around. A full length photo, with the gandik to the left of the photo would assist with identifacation.
That said, my feeling at the moment is that we are not looking at a Javanese blade, but I cannot yet see enough to be any more definite.

Rick · 11th August 2006, 12:05 AM

This one seems similar to the example shown .
I have a feeling it is Sumatran .

David · 11th August 2006, 12:56 AM

If i had you say i don't think i would vote for Javanese origins on this keris. I think it is probably Sumatran. This blade seems to have Bugis influences to me.

10th August 2006, 12:51 PM	#1
Zack_antik Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5	Keris Bugis Raja Gundala Dear members I'm new to this forum, i would like to know your opinion or comments about this Bugis Keris that i've bought. I was told that it is pamor tiban called Raja Gundala, it's from old blade with new ivory fittings, i really need you guys or those expert on keris to comment on it. Thanks. Rgds, Zack Attached Images

18th May 2006, 01:49 AM	#2
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Javanese Keris Raja Guntala (Merged With Zack's Bugis Gundala Post) Dear members I would like to know your opinion about this Javanese Keris that I have in my possesion the last year. I was told that it is pamor Raja Guntala and the name of it is Belanak Makan Makani / "the Belanak (fish) eating his food". You can see quite clearly the head of a fish at the base. Along the length of the blade is a larger fish chasing a smaller one. At the base, above the fish head, is the form of a man swimming. It is very old (at least I was told) but it would be interesting to know the possible era, dapur etc. Thanks guys Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 11th August 2006 at 01:47 AM. Reason: MERGING POSTS

18th May 2006, 02:04 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	No Offense Lei , But I just don't see what you are describing in the pamor . I do see a form that reminds me of a Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker ; but I see no fish head nor any man swimming . I guess that sometimes looking at pamor and interpreting it is like watching clouds . Then again that is just me ; your and others' mileage may vary . Again , I speak only for myself and certainly as no 'expert' . Rick

10th August 2006, 01:06 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,392	Transferred to our new Keris Forum .

11th August 2006, 12:05 AM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Similar ? This one seems similar to the example shown . I have a feeling it is Sumatran . Attached Images

18th May 2006, 02:47 AM	#4
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Hi Rick You are by far a lot more "expert" than me at least. Yes, I can understand your point and of course this is the case many times with the "pamor reading ". But, if you see in the first picture you will see the image of a fish chasing a smaller one to eat it. The name of the fish is Belanak (a wild fish in Indonesia I was told...). In the second picture in the base is a form that remindes the head of a fish (like an epinephelous) with it's mouth slightly open. Above the head of the fish and in the left side, is seems that there is the form of a man (head, two legs) if you see it from a diagonal view. If you see the blade form close distance, it is more obvious. The interesting thing is that the name of the pamor from the seller was Belanak Makan Makani (named after the form of the Belanak), something that I have never encounder before. In any case though, you are correct. Fantasy can play many games to a wissfull mind Thanks for your post.

18th May 2006, 02:48 AM	#5
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	By the way, what is "Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker"

20th May 2006, 01:21 AM	#6
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Guys Thank you very much for trying to help me. You are very helpfull

10th August 2006, 01:11 PM	#9
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Zack, Welcome to the forum. You'd better post your questions about keris in the forum Keris Warung Kopi. But i suppose our moderators will move this threat to that place. Better show us some pictures of the entire blade and the complete keris with scabbard and ukiran. My first impression is that this blade is javanese, mounted in a Sumatran dress. Not very unusual because javanese blades where highly appreciated and brought to Sumatra.

10th August 2006, 03:05 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Agree with Henk ; from what I can see the blade has a Jawa style look to it . More pictures please .

10th August 2006, 11:45 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,011	It is a bit difficult to be too definite about blade origin when all that can seen is a part of the sorsoran, and the blade is being viewed wrong way around. A full length photo, with the gandik to the left of the photo would assist with identifacation. That said, my feeling at the moment is that we are not looking at a Javanese blade, but I cannot yet see enough to be any more definite.

11th August 2006, 12:56 AM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	If i had you say i don't think i would vote for Javanese origins on this keris. I think it is probably Sumatran. This blade seems to have Bugis influences to me. Last edited by David; 11th August 2006 at 01:07 AM.