Two new additions to the Luzon collection

[Sajen]

Here are two new additions to my Luzon collection. First a long dagger, 53,5 cm long, the blade is 36 cm long without the bolster, 7 mm thick at the spine behind the bolster.Horn handle interlard with metal nails and brass mounts. Maybe Ilocos Norte? Raymundo just told me that it comes from Rizal!

[Sajen]

And here a nice heavy bolo from Meycauayan, Bulacan (my guess), mid. to end of the 19th century, I would call it tabak. 45 cm long inside scabbard, 44,2 cm without, blade 29,7 cm and 9,5 mm thick at the spine behind the handle. Horn handle with brass mounts. Raymundo just told me that it is either from Bulacan or Laguna.

[Sajen]

Thank you very much for your educated opinion Raymundo!

[kino]

Very nice Sajen. Congrats!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kino

Very nice Sajen. Congrats!

Thank you!

[JeffS]

Both are very nice. The handle of the top piece looks very heavy relative to the narrow blade profile, must be interesting to handle. For the second, is tabak a name for the style?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by JeffS

Both are very nice. The handle of the top piece looks very heavy relative to the narrow blade profile, must be interesting to handle.

Thanks Jeff! Yes the weight is at the handle, it's a long dagger and can be handled like this.

Originally Posted by JeffS

For the second, is tabak a name for the style?

Raymundo stated it!

Regards,
Detlef

[drac2k]

Fantastic!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Fantastic!

Thanks David!

[Ian]

More excellent additions to your Luzon collection of Spanish colonial knives from the 19th C. Congratulations!

Here are several that you posted previously and I think it's helpful to keep them together because Xasterix added his expertise in assigning origins for them also. Here are the identifications that he settled on a couple of years ago:

1. Quezon
2. [correction] Pangasinan
3. Pampanga
4. [correction] Bulacan OR Pampanga
5. [correction] Northern Luzon
6. Quezon
7. Pangasinan

Regards,

Ian.
,

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

More excellent additions to your Luzon collection of Spanish colonial knives from the 19th C. Congratulations!

Here are several that you posted previously and I think it's helpful to keep them together because Xasterix added his expertise in assigning origins for them also. Here are the identifications that he settled on a couple of years ago:

1. Quezon
2. [correction] Pangasinan
3. Pampanga
4. [correction] Bulacan OR Pampanga
5. [correction] Northern Luzon
6. Quezon
7. Pangasinan

Thank you Ian,

Will soon post a new overview, there is also this piece in the pic, a Pangasinan katana, which will come to me tomorrow.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

And this Tagalog bolo also! So a new overview is required!

[Ian]

Detlef,

In looking at the pictures copied from an earlier post, I notice that items 1 and 7 are listed as coming from Quezon. Both have interesting treatments at forte. No. 1 has a brass overlay on to the blade that extends from the guard. No. 7 has file work at forte that includes transverse lines and a chevron.

Now look at the forte on your first post in this thread. It too has an extension of the guard down on to the forte of the blade, showing transverse lines and a chevron. It appears to combine the features seen on knives 1 and 7 from the previous topic. Quezon influence on the one posted at top of this thread?

It is VERY hard to distinguish local characteristics on Luzon knives.

Regards,

Ian.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thank you Ian,

Will soon post a new overview, there is also this piece in the pic, a Pangasinan katana, which will come to me tomorrow.

Regards,
Detlef

I find it very difficult to distinguish between many Pangasinan and Ilocos Sur knives. Both provinces are overwhelmingly Ilokano, so they share a lot of ethnic characteristics and skills. Likewise Ilocos norte. There are also many Ilokanos in Pampanga, and one wonders to what extent those Ilokano influences have been adopted and renamed Kapampangan.

The sinan-kapitan hilt, for example, seems to be found throughout the Ilokano homelands, and Xasterix has stated that it might also be produced in Pampanga. Presumably we are looking for other, more subtle features in order to assign these local designations. Unfortunately, our Filipino colleagues have not been forthcoming with those details, and there has yet to emerge a publication that provides the necessary information. Based on prior concerns expressed on this forum, I am not confident that a complete classification of these knives will get published.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

In looking at the pictures copied from an earlier post, I notice that items 1 and 7 are listed as coming from Quezon. Both have interesting treatments at forte. No. 1 has a brass overlay on to the blade that extends from the guard. No. 7 has file work at forte that includes transverse lines and a chevron.

Hi Ian,
I think you mean No. 6 instead of No 7?

Originally Posted by Ian

Now look at the forte on your first post in this thread. It too has an extension of the guard down on to the forte of the blade, showing transverse lines and a chevron. It appears to combine the features seen on knives 1 and 7 from the previous topic. Quezon influence on the one posted at top of this thread?

Ray told me that the triangle at the brass guard and the handle inlay are the give away for the Rizal origin.
Personally I think that these brass guards with decorations are a question of age and quality but that's my guess only.

Originally Posted by Ian

It is VERY hard to distinguish local characteristics on Luzon knives.

Indeed!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

I find it very difficult to distinguish between many Pangasinan and Ilocos Sur knives. Both provinces are overwhelmingly Ilokano, so they share a lot of ethnic characteristics and skills. Likewise Ilocos norte. There are also many Ilokanos in Pampanga, and one wonders to what extent those Ilokano influences have been adopted and renamed Kapampangan.

The sinan-kapitan hilt, for example, seems to be found throughout the Ilokano homelands, and Xasterix has stated that it might also be produced in Pampanga. Presumably we are looking for other, more subtle features in order to assign these local designations. Unfortunately, our Filipino colleagues have not been forthcoming with those details, and there has yet to emerge a publication that provides the necessary information. Based on prior concerns expressed on this forum, I am not confident that a complete classification of these knives will get published.

Maybe in future will coming a publication where it will be explained!