What Constitutes a Kraton Keris?

[Boedhi Adhitya]

So why not admit that the spiritual and physical art of the empus can be rediscovered, and has? I believe that there are masters now making objects that will in the future be considered 'pusaka'. Certainly the work that I put in with an object that responds to me makes it function as a pusaka, and I feel the energy from it. I may call it by another name, but the cause and effect are the same

Yes, Mr Montino, technically and ritually, keris making process may be easily duplicated. It has not extinct yet, as some documentation on Empu Djeno Harumbrojo has been made. It is 'The Traditional Iron Knowledges' that had been lost. As some traditional book on keris wrote, there were many kind of iron, e.g. Karangkijang, Pulasani, Balitung, Kamboja, etc, which each of them may have specific 'power'. The Empu then mix these iron on certain composition, according to what 'power' he wished. It is not only about the ritual or forging technique, but also about the materials, according to traditional knowledge, of course. Until now, many keris makers still pursue on how to make greenish color exhibited by many nem-neman keris, not to mention the 'sulak ungu' (slightly purple) or ngelar glathik (greyish iron). But they far from succed, at least until now. Empu Djeno admited that he didn't master this knowledges since his father has not taught him yet before he passed away. Without this knowledges, any keris made today could only classified as handycraft, a work of art, a heirloom (if inherited by someone) or a weapon (but I doubt, since many keris maker didn't quench their works today, considering the risk), but never 'tosan aji' or 'honorable iron' in traditional senses, since no one really knew what kind of iron he forges. But perhaps, this knowledges might only a myth.

Once again thank you for your comment, Mr. Maisey. I do agree that present day confusion does not remove a word from a language, but I'm afraid more discussion will bring us to Etymology, which certainly an unproper topic in this forum (and certainly, I'm not the one to whom someone should discuss etymology ). Just a massage for your admirable daughter, if she please, she should learn one step further, the 'Bagongan' language, which is spoken only in Keraton, until today. It is easy (if you already master the krama), but it's limited use make it very exclusive. I cannot imagine how Javanese react if a foreigner spoke it

Best regards,

boedhi adhitya

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, I think we`ve already wrung enough out of word useage, Pak Boedhi.

Daughter is actually step-daughter, although I was responsible for her from a very young age. She is most certainly not a bule, not even half a bule. She married into an old aristocratic family, and was forced to learn Krama and Krama Inggil just to communicate within the family. This family now have very little to do with the Surakarta Kraton, for reasons of their own.

[Pangeran Datu]

Sampurasuuunnn ...

Sorry, wrong placement

Amit munduuurrr ...

[Kiai Carita]

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

..... Just a massage for your admirable daughter, if she please, she should learn one step further, the 'Bagongan' language, which is spoken only in Keraton, until today. It is easy (if you already master the krama), but it's limited use make it very exclusive. I cannot imagine how Javanese react if a foreigner spoke it

Best regards,

boedhi adhitya

Salam perkerisan,

Just to clarify, Bagongan language is only used inside the Yogyakarta Kraton and it is not any easier to learn if you know krama inggil because it uses a whole different vocabulary. It is an egalitarian language with no levels like Krama - Ngoko, a royal version of the Samin dialect from around Bojanegara.

A very informative thread.

Salam,
Bram.

[Pangeran Datu]

Sampurasuunn ..

Hello All,
I'm testing my ability to post pictures I hope it works. If not, please accept my humblest apologies.

Cheers.

Amit munduurr ..

[David]

You appear to have been successful P.D.
Do you care to tell us where the collection in the photos is from?

[Pangeran Datu]

Sampurasuunn ..

Originally Posted by David

You appear to have been successful P.D.
Do you care to tell us where the collection in the photos is from?

Hello David,
I just happened by to check on my success or otherwise and read your query.
I believe the pictures are of part of a Display Collection at one of the palaces of the Cirebon Household. They were recently passed on to me by a member of the Household, who knew of my interest in kerises. As to in which palace; that, I don't know. (However, I suspect this Collection may be in the Karaton Kasepuhan complex, as I know that they have a museum there).
(BTW, in the polite circles of the region, the more refined term DUHUNG is used instead of KERIS, just as duwung/curiga/wangkingan is used as a more refined term by other such circles).

Regards,

Amit munduurr ..

[Alam Shah]

Hi Pangeran Datu,

Thanks for the pictures. The glare and the flash are affecting the overall quality of the pictures. Cannot see much unfortunately, mostly profiles of the pieces.

Would appreciate the effort for better pictures.
These looks like fine kerises. Good effort.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pangeran Datu

(BTW, in the polite circles of the region, the more refined term DUHUNG is used instead of KERIS, just as duwung/curiga/wangkingan is used as a more refined term by other such circles).

Thanks for the info. I do believe most of us here are very familar with these other terms for keris. There are even more than that if you delve. I hope you aren't implying that we are not being "polite" or "refined" in our use of the word keris. We are, after all, a collector's forum and the term "keris" is the most universal and immediately understood term for it. It makes the most sense to use this word and i don't think we are being disrespectful in that use, are we?

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Pangeran Datu

(BTW, in the polite circles of the region, the more refined term DUHUNG is used instead of KERIS, just as duwung/curiga/wangkingan is used as a more refined term by other such circles).

Pangeran Datu, I believe the term is confined to Javanese and some nearby Indonesian culture only. It does not apply to Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore, Sumatra, Kalimantan, Riau-Lingga Archipelago and Sulawesi. Keris is also known by other names in their local dialects.

Therefore, as common ground, in this public forum, I believe "keris" is the most appropriate to be used.

[Pangeran Datu]

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for the info. I do believe most of us here are very familar with these other terms for keris. There are even more than that if you delve. I hope you aren't implying that we are not being "polite" or "refined" in our use of the word keris. We are, after all, a collector's forum and the term "keris" is the most universal and immediately understood term for it. It makes the most sense to use this word and i don't think we are being disrespectful in that use, are we?

Sampurasuunn ..

Hello David,

My sincerest apologies for causing any concern to you and others. The last comment in brackets of my last post was merely meant as a sort of footnote (for the uninitiated) for the use of the term 'DUHUNG' in the title. The 'region' referred to is the region around Cirebon.
Of course I am aware of the many different terms for the same thing that pervades the South-East Asian archipelago. That's the nature of the beast, when you have such diverse groups and languages. I am also aware that, as English is the lingua franca of this forum, keris/kris is the accepted term.(Even in the archipelago, keris is the term used generally).
Once again, I beg forgiveness from those of you whose sensitivities I have transgressed upon.

Regards,

Amit munduurr ..