Scottish basket hilt elements

Norman McCormick · 14th July 2025, 07:06 PM

Hi Jim.
First lot from Kelvingrove Museum all with German made blades.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 14th July 2025, 07:09 PM

Hi Jim,
Second lot from Kelvingrove Museum, can't remember blade origins I'm afraid. Will try to get to Kelvingrove and retrieve more information as soon as I can.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 14th July 2025, 07:11 PM

Hi Jim,
My only Scottish broadsword discussed here http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...17thC+scottish
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 14th July 2025, 08:12 PM

Thank you Norman!! I knew I could count on ye!!!
These are so breathtaking, as are all basket hilts! It is so overwhelming seeing so many at once, though in looking at them I want to individually itemize the various features and elements to learn more on them.

I recall Dr. Mazansky when writing his book, was following the path of Nick Norman in categorizing the character of hilts by period and features. I was hoping for more historical background and perhaps developmental notes, but his work is profoundly useful in itemizing categoric forms and character of elements for discussion. His glossary of terminology and nomenclature is extremely useful.

Your example shown is amazing! and the blade fascinating as the running wolf is not widely seen on Scot blades and with ANNO etc. As noted, these are all 17th century German blades and interesting variations. I am trying to find the references noting the talismanic properties of these often familiar markings on blades. I have long believed personally that the 'running wolf' of Passau, later Solingen, was a talismanic marking placed on blades in these types of thinking.

I noticed one of the hilts was in brass. I had always thought the brass hilts came about in the Napoleonic period with the swords for officers in the Highland units. Apparently there were instances of brass hilts as early as 1721, possibly earlier, and the challenging weather up there often called for more durability in hilts, with japanning or browning common, so as with naval hilts for damp climates, brass seems understandable.
I think the only prohibition in using brass is the softness of the metal not standing up well in combative interaction.

Norman McCormick · 14th July 2025, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you Norman!! I knew I could count on ye!!!
These are so breathtaking, as are all basket hilts! It is so overwhelming seeing so many at once, though in looking at them I want to individually itemize the various features and elements to learn more on them.

Hi Jim,
I will try at get to Kelvingrove within the next two or three weeks and photograph the complete swords with the relevant info as per the museum description hoping to give you a bit more to go on.
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 15th July 2025, 12:20 AM

Thats great Norman!!! I very much appreciate that! Im hoping to get together some sort of collective base of info on these, as for those few of us interested the references are hard to get, and even then answers are hard to find.
best,
Jim

Your excellent example, especially with unique blade, is an unusual form of Glasgow hilt, with the S element in place of shield. While often these types of elements have had attempts to distinguish them as representing 'Stirling' or even, 'Scotland, which is far too patronizing...they are noted as simply decorative shapes.
The page is from "Culloden: The Sword and the Sorrows" , which catalogues items of the 1996 exhibition.

The second from "Scottish Swords and Dirks" John Wallace, 1970, p.24 shows an example with interesting apparently earlier form with this feature as in second half 17th c. This suggests the development of these hilts likely further back than the turn of the century and that the Glasgow style pierced shields style likely began c 1680s-90s? being well evolved by the turn of the century into early years of 18th.
The 'S' would appear to be a carry over from the earlier hilts and likely among Glasgow's regional hammermen.

urbanspaceman · 15th July 2025, 11:10 AM

This is all great stuff Gents. Despite living on the border I have never been exposed to much info on Scottish weapons.
Actually, here in Newcastle, there is no real source of info on any of the weaponry that must have been in abundant use considering how many castles we have within a days' ride of here; probably more per capita than anywhere else on this planet.
Consequently, in trying to establish the provenance of the hilt on my Shotley Bridge broadsword blade, I was at a complete loss.
Norman, is Ralph still at Kelvingrove? He owes me an interview and I owe him a copy of my book. I may venture up there myself before the snow starts falling again.
Well done Chaps and thank-you.

14th July 2025, 07:06 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,643	Hi Jim. First lot from Kelvingrove Museum all with German made blades. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

14th July 2025, 07:09 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,643	Hi Jim, Second lot from Kelvingrove Museum, can't remember blade origins I'm afraid. Will try to get to Kelvingrove and retrieve more information as soon as I can. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

14th July 2025, 07:11 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,643	Hi Jim, My only Scottish broadsword discussed here http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...17thC+scottish Regards, Norman. Attached Images

15th July 2025, 12:20 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,565	Thats great Norman!!! I very much appreciate that! Im hoping to get together some sort of collective base of info on these, as for those few of us interested the references are hard to get, and even then answers are hard to find. best, Jim Your excellent example, especially with unique blade, is an unusual form of Glasgow hilt, with the S element in place of shield. While often these types of elements have had attempts to distinguish them as representing 'Stirling' or even, 'Scotland, which is far too patronizing...they are noted as simply decorative shapes. The page is from "Culloden: The Sword and the Sorrows" , which catalogues items of the 1996 exhibition. The second from "Scottish Swords and Dirks" John Wallace, 1970, p.24 shows an example with interesting apparently earlier form with this feature as in second half 17th c. This suggests the development of these hilts likely further back than the turn of the century and that the Glasgow style pierced shields style likely began c 1680s-90s? being well evolved by the turn of the century into early years of 18th. The 'S' would appear to be a carry over from the earlier hilts and likely among Glasgow's regional hammermen. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 15th July 2025 at 12:53 AM.

15th July 2025, 11:10 AM	#7
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 715	Timely This is all great stuff Gents. Despite living on the border I have never been exposed to much info on Scottish weapons. Actually, here in Newcastle, there is no real source of info on any of the weaponry that must have been in abundant use considering how many castles we have within a days' ride of here; probably more per capita than anywhere else on this planet. Consequently, in trying to establish the provenance of the hilt on my Shotley Bridge broadsword blade, I was at a complete loss. Norman, is Ralph still at Kelvingrove? He owes me an interview and I owe him a copy of my book. I may venture up there myself before the snow starts falling again. Well done Chaps and thank-you.

14th July 2025, 08:12 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,565	Thank you Norman!! I knew I could count on ye!!! These are so breathtaking, as are all basket hilts! It is so overwhelming seeing so many at once, though in looking at them I want to individually itemize the various features and elements to learn more on them. I recall Dr. Mazansky when writing his book, was following the path of Nick Norman in categorizing the character of hilts by period and features. I was hoping for more historical background and perhaps developmental notes, but his work is profoundly useful in itemizing categoric forms and character of elements for discussion. His glossary of terminology and nomenclature is extremely useful. Your example shown is amazing! and the blade fascinating as the running wolf is not widely seen on Scot blades and with ANNO etc. As noted, these are all 17th century German blades and interesting variations. I am trying to find the references noting the talismanic properties of these often familiar markings on blades. I have long believed personally that the 'running wolf' of Passau, later Solingen, was a talismanic marking placed on blades in these types of thinking. I noticed one of the hilts was in brass. I had always thought the brass hilts came about in the Napoleonic period with the swords for officers in the Highland units. Apparently there were instances of brass hilts as early as 1721, possibly earlier, and the challenging weather up there often called for more durability in hilts, with japanning or browning common, so as with naval hilts for damp climates, brass seems understandable. I think the only prohibition in using brass is the softness of the metal not standing up well in combative interaction.