Schiavona pommel

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

It was a fairly common weapon amongst the Border Reivers. In the 15/1600s they were often employed as mercenaries overseas (in Europe) and that is precisely where and when the schiavona shows up.
The thing about the Reivers is that they were outlaws in this country (and in Scotland) and were forced to use whatever they could find that proved suitable; schiavonas must have been great prizes. Jim, that blade is extra special: can you provide a bit more detail please?
Our own Cathey - of HAS - researched and compiled what is almost certainly the definitive work on the schiavona; I recommend it for everyone.
Back to the reason I posted my image:
up till now I have seen a pommel with a hole, and without. When there is a hole it is in the top left corner and sometimes the guard is attached, sometimes not.
What I am seeing here is a hole where no guard fixing could ever occur, so what is it doing there? Is it purely an oddity, or does it indicate that the purpose was other than a fixing to the basket which would explain why it often wasn't.

in this case it probably means the pommel has been replaced at some point in time

[urbanspaceman]

The hilt I am referring to is image 245457 in post #1

[werecow]

The description also notes that the guard is somewhat loose. Multiple anomalies... I wonder if there's shenanigans. The provenance seems OK though.

Originally Posted by ulfberth

in this case it probably means the pommel has been replaced at some point in time

But presumably the hole was used for something... Isn't it in the wrong place for the ring attaching it to the guard?

[M ELEY]

Thank you Keith for that fascinating information concerning the Border Reivers carrying these sword types! I was unaware of that. My grandmother was a 'Young', descended from the Clan Young in SW Scotland, 'Reiver Country'!

[urbanspaceman]

My maternal ancestors were Grahams: not a bunch you wanted to tangle with; ask any local Armstrong or Robson - of which there are many. Oddly enough, during my musical career (as a leader of multiple bands) both those clan descendants were often present and invariable proved troublesome.
There is an article by Jeffrey Ross that I will attach regarding the development of baskets. I am assuming it is permitted to disseminate this work; I know I am happy for my Shotley Bridge book to be freely available in pdf form; just ask and it shall be yours, as I have digitally compressed it for screen viewing and emailing.
It seems - Europe wide - all baskets followed progressively on from cruciform hilts. I also understand early baskets over here were regarded as Irish and were, initially, largely asymmetric, rapidly developing into full baskets but also remaining as asymmetrical Mortuary swords. The asymmetric hilts were, obviously, not left behind as the complete basket evolved.
None of this explains that hole in the pommel of my initial image posting though.

[urbanspaceman]

oops, forgot to attach the article
Evolution-of-the-basket-hilted-sword-form-the-16th-to-18th-centuries-ROSS-vol-123.pdf