The Indian PATA and the mysterious MANOPLE

Jim McDougall · 22nd May 2025, 08:56 PM

Returning to the example pata of the original post. This example was acquired from a well known dealer, collector who was a most unusual character, and his acquired holdings and holding were almost legendary in the arms circles of the times nearly 50 years ago.

I knew little in those days on Indian swords, but this thing was compelling!
In ensuing years I learned more of course, but knew this humble example paled next to the amazing examples I saw posted through the years.

However, in looking at it now, through very different eyes, with at least nominally more knowledge, I realize there is far more to this weapon than I had previously realized.
It appears to me that the blade is European, most likely German (Solingen) and of early to mid 18th c. Though the triple central fullers remind me of the familiar broadsword blades found in Sudanese kaskaras of the 19th c. We know that huge volumes of these blades from Germany were coming into the North African sphere from 1830s onward. It is believed that many were actually produced by Solingen later in the 19th specifically to the markets in Sudan.

With this blade however, I once thought it was in fact a kaskara blade, which had somehow ended up in a traditional pata type hilt later in 19th c. likely for ceremonial martial arts ritual and performance by Maratha men.
After seeing this sword again after many years, I think this was likely a German blade which ended up in probably an Indian firangi at some point in the 18th c. I could not see why a well worn kaskara blade would end up in India, also the central fuller extends virtually the full length of the blade. While obviously some kaskaras have this, these seem typically European.

It seems by the irregular edges of the blade, well worn by vigorous sharpening by individuals using stones rather than sharpening properly by armorers with proper equipment. IMO this suggests actual use in the native element and over considerable time. The astral symbols, typically sun, moon, star etc were at the forte, only traces can be seen, mostly obscured by the bolsters riveted to the blade.

Ian · 22nd May 2025, 11:58 PM

Jim,

Your pata seems a little unusual in orientation to me. The grip and forearm protection appear to be at a distinct angle to the orientation of the blade. If the blade tip pointed upward when held, it would appear to have been made for a left-handed person. If the tip pointed down, then a right-handed person. What do you think?

Also, the smiling moustachioed face on the guard is a representation that I have seen during my travels in Ghujarat (NW India). Perhaps it is more widely distributed also. The round face was depicted on a palace gate as the Sun with the face of a Rhajput warrior.

Ian.

Jim McDougall · 23rd May 2025, 02:30 AM

Thank you so much Ian! I was afraid I'd be solo here, I know this stuff is a bit esoteric and not much interest in Indian arms since Jens left.

Very astute observations, and honestly I had not thought of. Actually I thought the canted blade was just lousy mounting job. I also never noticed the lines which indeed might suggest facial hair. The face reminds me of a Buddha.
There were other suggestions of the Indian pantheon it seems some years ago.
I cant tell what this type of metal is, but seems like a bronze/copper ? alloy.

What you note on the Rajputs makes sense, as their clans focus a lot on sun oriented symbolism. I really appreciate this Ian, gives me whole new perspective on this, which I like better than the ideas I had resolved to from further south.

Jim McDougall · 25th May 2025, 03:49 AM

In the Stone reference, there is a three way view of the 'manople' and he notes as his reference the catalog of the Royal Armory in c.1840, by A. Jubinal.

Mercenary · 31st May 2025, 06:45 PM

Jim, thank you, you are right, this object is from a "living" culture and was used as a weapon in traditional martial arts. And if the handle is new (19th-20th centuries), then the blade, as you pointed out, has a much longer and more complicated history.
The pata sword was not only a weapon of the Marathas, but much more often a weapon of their opponents: the principalities of Rajasthan and the sultanates of the Deccan, and was also used throughout the rest of India.
I was interested not so much in the "face" on the handle (usually it is either a stylized image of a tiger or a person; in the case of a tiger, these would be the animal's ears, and in the case of a person - mustache or a third eye), as in the image of Garuda. This is a rarity in medieval and modern India - the cult of Garuda is more common in Nepal and Southeast Asia. This allows us to localize your object in South India, where the cult of Garuda has survived to this day as part of the Vaishnavism tradition. And this cult is directly connected with the warrior traditions, although to a lesser extent than the cult of Hanuman: in the South Indian kingdom of Hoysala there was a group of the bravest warriors, especially devoted to the ruler, who were called the Garuda warriors (Garuda served Vishnu as his vahana, so these warriors served the king).
Thank you for sharing this unusual item!

Jim McDougall · 31st May 2025, 09:03 PM

Mercenary, thank you so very much for such valuable input! I know from years of reading your posts you are incredibly well versed in these arms and the complex cultures they are from.
As I have noted, this unusual pata is among the number of swords I have acquired through lifetime, and now part of sort of 'bucket list' to try to close their cases and finally determine what they are exactly.

As you note this is an unusual item used in traditional martial arts, but in more of a ceremonial sense I believe, as it is not substantial enough to serve as an actual weapon. I am so glad you pointed out the image of Garuda, which I honestly would not have recognized even if I had noticed it. As I am totally uninitiated in the incredibly complex theology of these Indian religions, I am grateful for your adding this.

If I understand correctly, this pata may be associated with the cult of Garuda in Hoysala, so then the martial demonstrations or ceremonies might have used weapons such as this?

The celebration of warriors is well represented in the areas of Hoysala as seen in temples and warrior stones seen through its regions. Perhaps then this very old blade possibly might be a venerated old blade that has been remounted for use with this recognition?

Mercenary · 1st June 2025, 01:36 PM

It is very possible. Usually in akhara, kalari, festivals and ceremonies any weapon made recently and even from aluminum or something else is used. So in the case of your sword, such a combination of a real (not flexible, like most modern pata) and "very ancient" blade from the point of view of its owners in the 19th-20th centuries, and a handle with the image of Garuda may not be accidental. The image of Garuda is not just a decoration, especially on a simple weapon made not for sale, but for martial arts or fests. It is a sign, a symbol. It means that there was a semantic connection between the martial traditions and the cult of Garuda in this region for hundreds of years, which in turn means that your pata also comes from a warrior culture, regardless of when it was made. The main thing is that it lived in this culture. Not every item in our collections can boast of this.

P.S. That is why we are interested in Indian culture, where nothing had disappeared without a trace. Even for 5000 years.

22nd May 2025, 08:56 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,565	Back to the PATA Returning to the example pata of the original post. This example was acquired from a well known dealer, collector who was a most unusual character, and his acquired holdings and holding were almost legendary in the arms circles of the times nearly 50 years ago. I knew little in those days on Indian swords, but this thing was compelling! In ensuing years I learned more of course, but knew this humble example paled next to the amazing examples I saw posted through the years. However, in looking at it now, through very different eyes, with at least nominally more knowledge, I realize there is far more to this weapon than I had previously realized. It appears to me that the blade is European, most likely German (Solingen) and of early to mid 18th c. Though the triple central fullers remind me of the familiar broadsword blades found in Sudanese kaskaras of the 19th c. We know that huge volumes of these blades from Germany were coming into the North African sphere from 1830s onward. It is believed that many were actually produced by Solingen later in the 19th specifically to the markets in Sudan. With this blade however, I once thought it was in fact a kaskara blade, which had somehow ended up in a traditional pata type hilt later in 19th c. likely for ceremonial martial arts ritual and performance by Maratha men. After seeing this sword again after many years, I think this was likely a German blade which ended up in probably an Indian firangi at some point in the 18th c. I could not see why a well worn kaskara blade would end up in India, also the central fuller extends virtually the full length of the blade. While obviously some kaskaras have this, these seem typically European. It seems by the irregular edges of the blade, well worn by vigorous sharpening by individuals using stones rather than sharpening properly by armorers with proper equipment. IMO this suggests actual use in the native element and over considerable time. The astral symbols, typically sun, moon, star etc were at the forte, only traces can be seen, mostly obscured by the bolsters riveted to the blade. Attached Images

25th May 2025, 03:49 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,565	Stone (1934) In the Stone reference, there is a three way view of the 'manople' and he notes as his reference the catalog of the Royal Armory in c.1840, by A. Jubinal.

1st June 2025, 01:36 PM	#7
Mercenary Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 428	It is very possible. Usually in akhara, kalari, festivals and ceremonies any weapon made recently and even from aluminum or something else is used. So in the case of your sword, such a combination of a real (not flexible, like most modern pata) and "very ancient" blade from the point of view of its owners in the 19th-20th centuries, and a handle with the image of Garuda may not be accidental. The image of Garuda is not just a decoration, especially on a simple weapon made not for sale, but for martial arts or fests. It is a sign, a symbol. It means that there was a semantic connection between the martial traditions and the cult of Garuda in this region for hundreds of years, which in turn means that your pata also comes from a warrior culture, regardless of when it was made. The main thing is that it lived in this culture. Not every item in our collections can boast of this. P.S. That is why we are interested in Indian culture, where nothing had disappeared without a trace. Even for 5000 years. Attached Images

22nd May 2025, 11:58 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,465	Jim, Your pata seems a little unusual in orientation to me. The grip and forearm protection appear to be at a distinct angle to the orientation of the blade. If the blade tip pointed upward when held, it would appear to have been made for a left-handed person. If the tip pointed down, then a right-handed person. What do you think? Also, the smiling moustachioed face on the guard is a representation that I have seen during my travels in Ghujarat (NW India). Perhaps it is more widely distributed also. The round face was depicted on a palace gate as the Sun with the face of a Rhajput warrior. Ian.

23rd May 2025, 02:30 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,565	Thank you so much Ian! I was afraid I'd be solo here, I know this stuff is a bit esoteric and not much interest in Indian arms since Jens left. Very astute observations, and honestly I had not thought of. Actually I thought the canted blade was just lousy mounting job. I also never noticed the lines which indeed might suggest facial hair. The face reminds me of a Buddha. There were other suggestions of the Indian pantheon it seems some years ago. I cant tell what this type of metal is, but seems like a bronze/copper ? alloy. What you note on the Rajputs makes sense, as their clans focus a lot on sun oriented symbolism. I really appreciate this Ian, gives me whole new perspective on this, which I like better than the ideas I had resolved to from further south.

31st May 2025, 06:45 PM	#5
Mercenary Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 428	Jim, thank you, you are right, this object is from a "living" culture and was used as a weapon in traditional martial arts. And if the handle is new (19th-20th centuries), then the blade, as you pointed out, has a much longer and more complicated history. The pata sword was not only a weapon of the Marathas, but much more often a weapon of their opponents: the principalities of Rajasthan and the sultanates of the Deccan, and was also used throughout the rest of India. I was interested not so much in the "face" on the handle (usually it is either a stylized image of a tiger or a person; in the case of a tiger, these would be the animal's ears, and in the case of a person - mustache or a third eye), as in the image of Garuda. This is a rarity in medieval and modern India - the cult of Garuda is more common in Nepal and Southeast Asia. This allows us to localize your object in South India, where the cult of Garuda has survived to this day as part of the Vaishnavism tradition. And this cult is directly connected with the warrior traditions, although to a lesser extent than the cult of Hanuman: in the South Indian kingdom of Hoysala there was a group of the bravest warriors, especially devoted to the ruler, who were called the Garuda warriors (Garuda served Vishnu as his vahana, so these warriors served the king). Thank you for sharing this unusual item!

31st May 2025, 09:03 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,565	Mercenary, thank you so very much for such valuable input! I know from years of reading your posts you are incredibly well versed in these arms and the complex cultures they are from. As I have noted, this unusual pata is among the number of swords I have acquired through lifetime, and now part of sort of 'bucket list' to try to close their cases and finally determine what they are exactly. As you note this is an unusual item used in traditional martial arts, but in more of a ceremonial sense I believe, as it is not substantial enough to serve as an actual weapon. I am so glad you pointed out the image of Garuda, which I honestly would not have recognized even if I had noticed it. As I am totally uninitiated in the incredibly complex theology of these Indian religions, I am grateful for your adding this. If I understand correctly, this pata may be associated with the cult of Garuda in Hoysala, so then the martial demonstrations or ceremonies might have used weapons such as this? The celebration of warriors is well represented in the areas of Hoysala as seen in temples and warrior stones seen through its regions. Perhaps then this very old blade possibly might be a venerated old blade that has been remounted for use with this recognition?