Cannon Balls

kronckew · 14th April 2025, 09:20 PM

A Titbit of information you may not have known about:

toaster5sqn · 14th April 2025, 09:51 PM

Do you really believe that a rolling and pitching ship would store cannonballs in such an unstable manner?
I've read that the whole story was made up in Victorian times to sanitize the obvious biologically reference. The saying is believed to have been inspired by the popularity of brass castings of the three wise monkeys (see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil).

Robert

adrian · 14th April 2025, 10:14 PM

I too believe this to be an 'urban myth' and some years ago I read a detailed explanation that debunked it very convincingly. In all my research and reading I have never found anything that even remotely supports the 'myth' either.

Rick · 15th April 2025, 04:42 AM

Engaged, a shot garland like this would spill the top round off the pile on near impact creating yet another problem rolling around on the deck for the poor bastards who were serving the great Guns.

kronckew · 16th April 2025, 12:01 AM

The real brass monkeys:

M ELEY · 16th April 2025, 04:55 AM

I agree with the stacking of cannon balls on a ship seeming impractical, but the pyramidal stacking of cannonballs was definitely a practice for land installations and in the field. Cannon 'stations' along the river of some cities in Virginia have yielded cannonballs buried in the earth still in their original stacked pile. So maybe the story might be right, but not in a naval setting???

Jim McDougall · 16th April 2025, 05:22 PM

Well noted Capn! It seems stacking of cannon balls was common overall in static settings as there would be no dynamics causing shifts of the stack.

It seems the naval setting is simply a popular conduit for popular adaptions of phrases, sayings and various colloquial figurative metaphors etc. from the days of trade in the age of sail.

The incredibly tenuous root of the entire 'brass monkey' thing goes back to the sayings of Confucious, which likely entered the western culture through various channels linked to trade with the East. 'Hear no evil; speak no evil; see no evil" ended up related to monkeys via (as often the case) translation errors and play on word aspects common in colloquial speech.

This led to the popular brass monkey figures sometime early in 19th c. which became well known and the expressions referring to various anatomical elements ....mostly hair, nose etc. The 'balls' of course ended up in the baser maritime slang.
Here of course, colorful language was often applied to the key dynamic of weather notable to ships and the sailors.

It is typically fascinating to see the aspects of the general application of these kinds of colloquialisms and to the case of 'collectors terms' which add so much 'dimension' to our study of historical arms.

Regarding the brass monkeys etc. the root of all these variations was likely the proverbs of Confucious and his THREE WISE MONKEYS....but gotta admit these idioms are a lot more colorful than some boring proverb from Confucious. We have a lot of 'em here in Texas!

14th April 2025, 09:20 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,214	Cannon Balls A Titbit of information you may not have known about: Attached Images

16th April 2025, 12:01 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,214	The real brass monkeys: Attached Images

14th April 2025, 09:51 PM	#2
toaster5sqn Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 74	Do you really believe that a rolling and pitching ship would store cannonballs in such an unstable manner? I've read that the whole story was made up in Victorian times to sanitize the obvious biologically reference. The saying is believed to have been inspired by the popularity of brass castings of the three wise monkeys (see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil). Robert

14th April 2025, 10:14 PM	#3
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 130	I too believe this to be an 'urban myth' and some years ago I read a detailed explanation that debunked it very convincingly. In all my research and reading I have never found anything that even remotely supports the 'myth' either.

15th April 2025, 04:42 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Engaged, a shot garland like this would spill the top round off the pile on near impact creating yet another problem rolling around on the deck for the poor bastards who were serving the great Guns.

16th April 2025, 04:55 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	I agree with the stacking of cannon balls on a ship seeming impractical, but the pyramidal stacking of cannonballs was definitely a practice for land installations and in the field. Cannon 'stations' along the river of some cities in Virginia have yielded cannonballs buried in the earth still in their original stacked pile. So maybe the story might be right, but not in a naval setting???

16th April 2025, 05:22 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,177	Well noted Capn! It seems stacking of cannon balls was common overall in static settings as there would be no dynamics causing shifts of the stack. It seems the naval setting is simply a popular conduit for popular adaptions of phrases, sayings and various colloquial figurative metaphors etc. from the days of trade in the age of sail. The incredibly tenuous root of the entire 'brass monkey' thing goes back to the sayings of Confucious, which likely entered the western culture through various channels linked to trade with the East. 'Hear no evil; speak no evil; see no evil" ended up related to monkeys via (as often the case) translation errors and play on word aspects common in colloquial speech. This led to the popular brass monkey figures sometime early in 19th c. which became well known and the expressions referring to various anatomical elements ....mostly hair, nose etc. The 'balls' of course ended up in the baser maritime slang. Here of course, colorful language was often applied to the key dynamic of weather notable to ships and the sailors. It is typically fascinating to see the aspects of the general application of these kinds of colloquialisms and to the case of 'collectors terms' which add so much 'dimension' to our study of historical arms. Regarding the brass monkeys etc. the root of all these variations was likely the proverbs of Confucious and his THREE WISE MONKEYS....but gotta admit these idioms are a lot more colorful than some boring proverb from Confucious. We have a lot of 'em here in Texas!