A koummya- and contexts

[RobT]

Jim McDougall,
Your point about weapons being worn as status and fashion can’t be overemphasized. For anyone of the culture, the sumptuousness of man’s sidearm allowed the viewer to get a good idea of the wearer’s wealth and power. This display could actually act as a deterrent to physical conflict as, no matter how justified, an attack on a rich individual by a less affluent person put not only the assailant at grave risk of retaliation by all the forces that wealth can summon but also placed the attacker’s family in danger of the same.
An example of this status/authority is a koummya in my collection with a chapeau de gendarme pommel. The blade is noticeably larger than average and the sheath is a good bit larger than average but the pommel measures 8” (20.32cm) across and is about 5” (12.7cm) high. Even though the blade is a very good one, I can’t imagine effectively using a dagger with a pommel the size of a luncheon plate. The only thing I can think of is this ensemble was designed and worn as a very visible symbol of authority.

Changdao,
I won’t address the use or utility of the sword size flyssa other than to point out that the base of the blade extends far below the hilt and that would be enough to stop the user’s hand from traveling up the blade on the thrust. This feature on the dagger size flyssa makes them well suited for thrusting. Any mechanism that prevents the hand from going up the blade will do. It doesn’t have to be a guard. For example, the hilt ring that is designed to fit between the middle and ring fingers on a khukri will work.
I have read that the reason the khyber knife is called a knife was because it was used to stab overhand with a pugio grip (aka ice pick grip or reverse grip). I have also seen a period drawing showing an Afghan fighter holding a khyber knife in this manner while attacking a British trooper. In any event, the khyber knife with its sharp, quick tip is ideally designed for thrusting and stabbing. Not only does the heel of blade extend far below the hilt, the heel is slightly concave thus making it impossible for the user’s hand to slide up the blade on the thrust. In addition to this, the hilt ferrule has an extension that runs down the heel of the blade and forms a cushion for the hand. Whatever British reports you have read notwithstanding, I find it impossible to believe a knife so carefully designed for thrusting and stabbing wasn’t used that way at least some of the time.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Rick]

I would think one would be hard put to sever a limb with a blow from a fleece.
Form follows function, I would think in this case.
Since we are in the same neighborhood, and this thread started out with the Koummya, are there any thoughts to be had on the Genoui, the straight bladed dagger from this same culture?

[Pertinax]

[QUOTE=Rick;296768]I would think one would be hard put to sever a limb with a blow from a fleece.
Form follows function, I would think in this case.

The Kabyles had the habit of cutting off the heads of captured and defeated enemies. This tradition goes back to ancient times.

Gaius Sallust Crispa "Jugurtha War", late 40s BC:

- The Numidians, following their orders, brought his head (from Hiempsal) to Jugurtha.

Lapene describes:

- Revenge among the Arabs, especially among the Kabaileans, is not considered complete, and the bloody mission is not accomplished, unless the head of the enemy is thrown at the feet of his rival.

- This habit of crime makes them cruel. They are even among themselves, from tribe to tribe, merciless enemies. If a Frenchman falls into their hands, they kill him on the spot, committing all sorts of atrocities on his corpse. They shed blood as if from necessity, and one might say, with inexpressible pleasure. Women share these feelings, and they tear men to pieces.

- There is nothing more terrible than the fate that befalls ships, no matter what their flag, when in danger or shipwrecked on an inhospitable coast. First the men are dragged ashore in the delusive hope of helping them, then they are actually thrown upon, the cargo is plundered, the ship is destroyed, the throats of the crew are cut. Here the most influential, apparently the calmest or the wisest leaders set an example of black ferocity. - They rush with mad fury upon a soldier, a wounded officer, who, unable to defend himself, becomes an easy prey. We have seen how, in particular, during the retreat at Medea, they pounced like vultures upon soldiers, officers, who were struck down and fought hand to hand with the escort and seized their victim. They show no quarter to a living enemy who remains in their hands. They beat him with unimaginable violence, maimed him, tore him to pieces, and finally cut off his head. They rush with the same fury at a man who falls mortally wounded, attack his corpse, maim it and behead him. Indulging in such horrors, they believe that they have earned good from God and their country. They carry off the heads like so many trophies, display them with fierce joy and narrate with an accent all the circumstances of the battle. - To carry a dead man from the battlefield is a religious duty. This protects him from being beheaded, otherwise how could an angel seize him and carry him to Paradise with the help of the only tuft of hair (Ketaya) provided for this purpose on his shaved head. Thus, near the corpse of a fallen man, there is always a hand-to-hand fight and a fierce struggle to save the body from the adversaries, and triumph is bought only by new deaths.

[Marc M.]

These are the only koumiyas I have, perhaps too few to confirm my thesis, on all three the shape of the handle is such that an integrated 'hand stop' is formed. On the middle one this is very minimal. However in all three the blade against the handle is not sharp and this maximum thickness of the blade is 2.4 and 5 cm long at the inner curve. At the outer curvature, this unsharpness is much longer. That the thickness of the blade is so present on most koumiyas I have seen is in all likelihood spike for a reason. If the hand does slide off the blade under impact those blunt edges are there to keep the hand from doing damage, admittedly limited but still.
Regards
Marc

[Jim McDougall]

RobT, thank you .....STATUS & UTILITY absolutely of shared importance. As collectors, typically we are attracted not only to certain various fields of collecting, but to different aspects of the arms and cultures.

"...show the connoisseur the arms of a people, and he will tell you about its culture".
-Joseph Lepkowski (1857)
*from frontispiece of "Polish Side Arms", Nadolski

Rick- absolutely good catch..............the 'genouii' is important as, if I understand correctly, simply the local term for basically a koummya with straight blade rather than curved.

There are a number of Moroccan edged weapons which might be observed as well, such as the s'boula, which is typically straight blade (often bayonets) and often with 'H' type hilt.

Perrtinax, as Ian has well said, your notable knowledge on the flyssa and these subject weapons is remarkable, and sharing it here with us totally expands our collective knowledge base.......exactly why we're here.

Marc, nice examples! The center one with bone handle seems very much liked my example in original post.

Great discussion guys, thank you all so much. While other weapon forms are brought in as analogies, the perspective added to understanding of the weapon in discussion, the koummya, is outstanding.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by RobT

Jim McDougall,

An example of this status/authority is a koummya in my collection with a chapeau de gendarme pommel. The blade is noticeably larger than average and the sheath is a good bit larger than average but the pommel measures 8” (20.32cm) across and is about 5” (12.7cm) high. Even though the blade is a very good one, I can’t imagine effectively using a dagger with a pommel the size of a luncheon plate. The only thing I can think of is this ensemble was designed and worn as a very visible symbol of authority.


Sincerely,
RobT

The biggest and heaviest kummiya I've ever come across. A souvenir, of course.
Length in sheath - 440 mm, length without sheath - 425 mm, blade length - 216 mm, width - 54 mm, thickness - 3 mm, weight - 1568 g