SPANDAU BALLET

Jim McDougall · 17th February 2025, 04:18 PM

Here is the ground version of the LMG 08, the MAXIM gun, called the "Devils Paintbrush" for its deadly sweep of carnage in battle.

As has been well noted, the "SPANDAU" term only applied to the IMG08 guns for aviation use and with the perforated surround which provided the air cooling of the barrel.
The same machine gun for use by ground forces were known as their proper classification, the Maxim gun (as well noted by Wayne in post #34).
However, as often the case in common usage in such eponyms, the term Spandau became in military vernacular collectively used for German machine guns.
The Spandau for aviation use was the ONLY form produced in Spandau.
Interestingly , the term 'Spandau ballet' was a term not devised until post WWII and referring to the suicide of Rudolph Hess who had been held prisoner there (by then a prison) by hanging.

kahnjar1 · 17th February 2025, 08:18 PM

This museum created by Sir Peter Jackson of Lord of the Rings fame contains his personal collection of WW1 aircraft, and life size dioramas of amongst other things the crashed Fokker Triplane of the Red Baron. If you are ever in NZ don't miss this. There is also a WW2 section.

Stu

Jim McDougall · 17th February 2025, 09:52 PM

OMG STU!!!
THIS IS INCREDIBLE!!!

There is nothing like this here or anywhere Ive ever heard of.
That scene of the crash site is breathtaking and as far as I can see 100% accurate.
I hope I can find the disposition of the relics associated with this event, there was total souvenir taking, leaving just the bare frame of the DRI left to rust. It seems remarkable they didnt part that out as well.

The guns are anybodys guess, it seems they would have turned up over a century later. Usually these things are secreted away in private collections and when the estate is disposed of, if not properly catalogued, off into never never land.

I cannot believe the stuff you guys have down there. !!!

kahnjar1 · 17th February 2025, 11:44 PM

I could post more pics of this Museum but I think I have stretched my luck far enough! Just one more though showing the destruction of the Triplane from a different angle. The dioramas by the way, were largely put together by WETA WORKSHOPS who were heavily involved with the Lord of the Rings movies and others such as AVATAR.
Stu

Jim McDougall · 18th February 2025, 12:41 AM

Thank you again Stu!! Absolutely wonderful images! While indeed this topic and area does seem a bit out of the scope of this forum (again I had honestly forgotten the ethnographic in the title) and am grateful for the indulgence of the staff, it is heartening to see the readership here.

In 15 days over 24,000 readers seems to illustrate a widely shared interest in WWI aviation, and in particular the machine guns which took to the air in this then new aspect of warfare. Though the discussion of arms in the European forum does allow some latitude in looking into arms which transcend the presumed demarcation c. 1900, many of those had 19th century origins, but even there this topic does stretch obviously.

While again grateful for staff forbearance on this, in future entries I will stay in accord with the proper topics scope suggested . Meanwhile, it has been great to examine this interesting subject here, for me as noted, a very long standing one.

kahnjar1 · 18th February 2025, 02:25 AM

As you point out there has been a lot of interest in this Thread. If the Mods agree here, I am happy to post more pics from the Museum mentioned, but will only do so with their permission.....I don't want to be banned!!!
Stu

Jim McDougall · 18th February 2025, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

As you point out there has been a lot of interest in this Thread. If the Mods agree here, I am happy to post more pics from the Museum mentioned, but will only do so with their permission.....I don't want to be banned!!!
Stu

Good to be aware. These pics do show the context in which these guns were used, so keeping that in mind is consistent with the thread in degree. Thats why though the topic is the Spandau machine gun, I showed the various other types in use that were contemporary as adversaries.

17th February 2025, 04:18 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	The Devils Paintbrush-the MAXIM gun Here is the ground version of the LMG 08, the MAXIM gun, called the "Devils Paintbrush" for its deadly sweep of carnage in battle. As has been well noted, the "SPANDAU" term only applied to the IMG08 guns for aviation use and with the perforated surround which provided the air cooling of the barrel. The same machine gun for use by ground forces were known as their proper classification, the Maxim gun (as well noted by Wayne in post #34). However, as often the case in common usage in such eponyms, the term Spandau became in military vernacular collectively used for German machine guns. The Spandau for aviation use was the ONLY form produced in Spandau. Interestingly , the term 'Spandau ballet' was a term not devised until post WWII and referring to the suicide of Rudolph Hess who had been held prisoner there (by then a prison) by hanging. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 18th February 2025 at 01:00 AM. Reason: proper recognition for post bt Kronckew

17th February 2025, 08:18 PM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	FOR THE WW1 AVIATION FANS Omaka Aviation Museum Blenheim NZ This museum created by Sir Peter Jackson of Lord of the Rings fame contains his personal collection of WW1 aircraft, and life size dioramas of amongst other things the crashed Fokker Triplane of the Red Baron. If you are ever in NZ don't miss this. There is also a WW2 section. Stu Attached Images

17th February 2025, 11:44 PM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	I could post more pics of this Museum but I think I have stretched my luck far enough! Just one more though showing the destruction of the Triplane from a different angle. The dioramas by the way, were largely put together by WETA WORKSHOPS who were heavily involved with the Lord of the Rings movies and others such as AVATAR. Stu Attached Images

18th February 2025, 02:25 AM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	More ?? As you point out there has been a lot of interest in this Thread. If the Mods agree here, I am happy to post more pics from the Museum mentioned, but will only do so with their permission.....I don't want to be banned!!! Stu

17th February 2025, 09:52 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	OMG STU!!! THIS IS INCREDIBLE!!! There is nothing like this here or anywhere Ive ever heard of. That scene of the crash site is breathtaking and as far as I can see 100% accurate. I hope I can find the disposition of the relics associated with this event, there was total souvenir taking, leaving just the bare frame of the DRI left to rust. It seems remarkable they didnt part that out as well. The guns are anybodys guess, it seems they would have turned up over a century later. Usually these things are secreted away in private collections and when the estate is disposed of, if not properly catalogued, off into never never land. I cannot believe the stuff you guys have down there. !!!

18th February 2025, 12:41 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Thank you again Stu!! Absolutely wonderful images! While indeed this topic and area does seem a bit out of the scope of this forum (again I had honestly forgotten the ethnographic in the title) and am grateful for the indulgence of the staff, it is heartening to see the readership here. In 15 days over 24,000 readers seems to illustrate a widely shared interest in WWI aviation, and in particular the machine guns which took to the air in this then new aspect of warfare. Though the discussion of arms in the European forum does allow some latitude in looking into arms which transcend the presumed demarcation c. 1900, many of those had 19th century origins, but even there this topic does stretch obviously. While again grateful for staff forbearance on this, in future entries I will stay in accord with the proper topics scope suggested . Meanwhile, it has been great to examine this interesting subject here, for me as noted, a very long standing one.