A new Nimcha for comment

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by TVV

Jim, I have a picture archive of 50+ of these swords, which I will continue to call Zanzibar nimchas to differentiate them from other Omani and East African swords that have different hilts. I am yet to see one with a blade that has European markings or even imitations thereof. In fact, the only markings I have seen are a Crescent with three stars and the so-called hourglass mark, both of which to my understanding are local or Indian. And this is true regardless of the blade type - curved or straight, single or double edged, fullers or no fullers - never a European mark.

Given the sample size, this cannot be ascribed entirely on coincidence, and is in stark contrast to kattaras and the straight cylindrical hilt swords from Oman and Omani East African possessions, which typically have multiple European (or imitation) marks and symbols.

Either the nimchas did not use European blades, but rather locally made ones or Indian imports, or they were left unmarked on purpose and/or the European marks erased.

Gunnar's reference is from Helgot, but from the sold items section so I believe it is in compliance with forum rules.

Teodor, there is nothing wrong with calling them Zanzibar nimchas, as these types over the past decades have become classified as such. Obviously you have resounding experience with these over these past decades, and I recall discussions those years ago with Louis-Pierre, agreeing that the Zanzibar term seemed most suitable.

The apparently limited examples I refer to with European blades are those with ANDREA FERARA blade; Spanish motto; and these types of European cavalry blades as in OP.

I recognize the markings you describe, some of which seem copies of German marks of 19th c. but these blades I thought were perhaps Solingen blanks. You are saying the blades on most 'nimcha' were 'locally' produced? or from India? which centers or locations in the Maghreb or India produced blades?

I think that the 'name game' has become necessary as collecting interests have grown in order to have a semantically viable glossary to use in reference and discussion. Collecting is based on classification, where in most historic accounts and narratives most references to weapons only require the type; edged, knife, sword, gun, rifle.

Actually I rather regret having brought these particulars up.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Teodor, there is nothing wrong with calling them Zanzibar nimchas, as these types over the past decades have become classified as such. Obviously you have resounding experience with these over these past decades, and I recall discussions those years ago with Louis-Pierre, agreeing that the Zanzibar term seemed most suitable.

The apparently limited examples I refer to with European blades are those with ANDREA FERARA blade; Spanish motto; and these types of European cavalry blades as in OP.

I recognize the markings you describe, some of which seem copies of German marks of 19th c. but these blades I thought were perhaps Solingen blanks. You are saying the blades on most 'nimcha' were 'locally' produced? or from India? which centers or locations in the Maghreb or India produced blades?

I think that the 'name game' has become necessary as collecting interests have grown in order to have a semantically viable glossary to use in reference and discussion. Collecting is based on classification, where in most historic accounts and narratives most references to weapons only require the type; edged, knife, sword, gun, rifle.

Actually I rather regret having brought these particulars up.

Jim, the sword subject to this thread has a blade that seems to follow European cavalry sword patterns, but does it actually have any marks on it? Perhaps efrahjalt can answer that.

I have seen Maghrebi swords with Andrea Ferrara inscriptions, but never a Zanzibar/Oman one, and this includes the book by Clarizia, where he has published all items in the National Museum in Muscat. And this extends to all kinds of European marks, stamps and inscriptions - I am yet to see any of them on a Zanzibar nimcha hilted blade.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by TVV

Jim, the sword subject to this thread has a blade that seems to follow European cavalry sword patterns, but does it actually have any marks on it? Perhaps efrahjalt can answer that.

I have seen Maghrebi swords with Andrea Ferrara inscriptions, but never a Zanzibar/Oman one, and this includes the book by Clarizia, where he has published all items in the National Museum in Muscat. And this extends to all kinds of European marks, stamps and inscriptions - I am yet to see any of them on a Zanzibar nimcha hilted blade.

Duly noted, the Andrea Ferara etc DO occur on Maghrebi examples, but as you say not on ZANZIBAR types (the examples typically with guard ring...not certain on where the ones with pitones fit in).

As noted, the subject example shown here DOES have a blade 'following' European designs.............no markings. It seems that Solingen, in numerous shops producing blades in the 19th c. is presumed to have instances of these en masse for export may have issued what might be described as 'blanks;.
This seems to have been potentially the case in numbers of kaskara type blades later in the century.

While native sword makers were notably skilled in blade production, it seems these type cavalry blades would be somewhat less likely.
Again, I am wondering where exactly such blades might have come from if not Solingen. In North Africa, I have never seen blade producing centers for full size swords, while like in Yemen and numbers of other locations, dagger, knife etc. blades were produced.
We know that India produced considerable types of full length sword blades which were of course used in the Arab sphere, but again examples of tulwars etc. or these Arab sabers do not seem (as far as I have seen) to concur with the subject example type.
Naturally Indian blades were typically 'blank' unless having spurious marks such as the 'sickle', which usually were in the north (as on paluoars of Afghan areas).

So the question remains, where did Zanzibar 'nimcha' blades come from. Burton in years prior to his "Book of the Sword" noted that the kitara swords in African regions in interior which were terminus' of 'trade' networks to and from Zanzibar, controlled by Omani traders......used GERMAN CAVALRY blades. These swords were the familiar Omani sa'if known as KATTARA but with curved blades.

SO, if the use of German cavalry blades in these regions of Africa are noted from mid 19th century onward, into swords of ZANZIBAR then why would they not occur concurrently on these nimchas.
If sword blades were being made in Yemen (or India for that matter) then why would Yemen call for nimchas being made in Zanzibar, as in the lots found in the 1980s?

Which book is it you cite by Clarizia? Perhaps that reference is something I need as clearly there are notable gaps in my awareness of these areas.

[TVV]

Jim, there are two volumes by Vincenzo Clarizia titled "Ancient Weapons of Oman". Volume 1 is Edged Weapons and Volume 2 is Firearms.

It is possible and even plausible that many of the Zanzibar nimcha hilt swords used unmarked Solingen blades. But it is interesting that while kattaras and cylndrical hilt saif blades were extensively marked, the nimchas were left without marks, and this is true of any style of blade, extending to broadsword and backsword types.

In the threads linked in this topic I have shown one of my Zanzibar nimchas, which has a very crude blade with a rough, uneven fuller. I suspect that it was a locally made one.

Based on Elgood and Hales we know that many of the Southern Yemen saifs were made in Hyderabad. We should not underestimate Indian blade production and the ability of Indian smiths to copy European patterns.

[Jim McDougall]

The first two swords are not 'nimchas' but what I presumed were 'pirate swords' of the Muscati coast. Technically (by definition) these ARE nimchas but again, that rabbit hole is best left to other debates.
The reference is from Robert Elgood's "Arabian arms" book showing the flared tip blade. I was told later these swords were distinctly types found in Yemen.
The next images are of the top example, and marks.Note these curious sets of markings, crudely placed, resemble such conventions on Italian blades. It is interesting that some Arab sword features come from earlier Italian hilt styles, such as the guard ring as seen on the Zanzibar forms.

Next is the 'Zanzibar' nimcha from the lot of examples found in Yemen in the 80s, and the blade showing the three cross markings. Note this hilt is rather crudely cast, and the blade seems rather crudely made as well.

Next is the Maghrebi nimcha, in this case blade seems fairly well made but note the forte is blocked (notably European?) and the marking is quite crudely stamped. If I recall, the pentagram star suggests Morocco, and seems oddly placed with a 'Genoan' sickle mark.
If not mistaken nimcha markings situated in this manner are shown in the drawing in Briggs (1965) and he was apparently located in Algeria where he found the example he illustrated.

In looking at these, the blades do seem somewhat more crudely made than European in most of them, but the question remains where were they produced?
Note the proclivity to the heavier, flared blade tips. As I understand this feature has to do with the dynamics of the 'yelman' which was primarily to add 'weight' to the slashing cut.

[TVV]

Jim, in my opinion, with the exception of the Moroccan example, all the swords in your post were hilted in Yemen.

[Jim McDougall]

We are in accord, though I am puzzled at why the 'Zanzibar' sword was hilted in Yemen. While Artzi indicated it was found there in an arsenal with about 40 others of the same hilt form loosely, he claimed these had come from Zanzibar to supply Yemeni forces in the ongoing disturbances there.