Lombok keris fullers and age query

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually Jeff, carving steel & iron is no more difficult than carving wood, in fact, in some respects it is easier because you have no grain to accommodate. Of course, if we are working with steel we anneal the material before putting tools on it.

But it does take time.

This keris that I have shown is one of the keris that I have made, I welded the forging in Solo, & I carved it back in Australia. I worked with two strikers for 3 days, about 20 or so hours, to do the hot work, then it took around 45 days at 8 to 10 hours a day to carve it.

The sogokan on each side of the blade took 4 days per side.

So yes, although there is a degree of skill involved, the really important thing is understand what needs to be achieved & be prepared to take the necessary time to achieve it.

Incidentally, I used only traditional Javanese tools to carve this keris, I did not use any electric grinders, I used only files, scrapers, cold chisels & a hammer, the files I bought, the scrapers & chisels I made.

[SidJ]

Do modern empus use modern power tools to make high end keris and if so are they considered lesser than those made using traditional hand tools? I've seen videos of dudes carving out keris details with power tools. Seems like it's cheating to me compared to the old ways but maybe it's not.

[A. G. Maisey]

All of the keris makers of the modern era whom I know or know of use modern tools & electric tools for the bench work involved in making a keris.

They are creating art and the current perception is that the end justifies the means.

Keris cost less to make now than they used to cost when traditional tools were used, & this is simply because using the old traditional tools it took a lot longer to do the work.

My teacher, Empu Suparman, used only the traditional tools. I have those tools and they are very simple hand tools.

[SidJ]

It's weird how the western pricing of old handmade keris, specifically everyman keris does not account for the fact that they are handmade. It's clearly a question of supply and demand.

[David]

Originally Posted by SidJ

It's weird how the western pricing of old handmade keris, specifically everyman keris does not account for the fact that they are handmade. It's clearly a question of supply and demand.

I think there is some room for interpretation when someone uses the term "handmade". For many people it simply means that the item was crafted by the artist in a singular and unique manner as opposed to mass produced. For many people a craftsman can indeed use a few power tools in the mix and still consider the item "handmade". Perhaps this is not the original intent of the term, but language does indeed change over the years. But if a keris maker has forged the billet from scratch and then used a few power tools in the process of shaping the keris i would still look at it as a handmade object. Using all non-power tools to make a keris is certainly remarkable, but i'm not convinced that it creates a superior keris in the end. Certainly it takes more time to create, but depending upon what power tools you use and how you use them and how you ultimately finish the keris i am not sure that you will actually see the difference.
Modern keris makers use power tools because it woul be much more expensive for them not to. They could, i suppose, pass that cost in time along to the client, but many potential clients are probably not willing to pay that much extra simply because the keris was made only with hand tools. When we consider the price on antique keris that were indeed made only with hand tools we have to factor in that the keris maker was paid for their work many years ago and are long dead. So the craftsman no longer needs to be compensated for their work and the keris is valued by other criteria such as tangguh, quality of execution, rarity of form, etc.

[Ian]

Hi Alan,

In the following statement you refer to rules that apply to keris-making that might well vary by place and time.

In the creation of a keris there are certain rules that must be applied to the formation of each part of a keris, and there are standards that must be applied to the work that has been carried out in order to complete the keris.

Are these rules written down so that we may access them today, or were they passed on simply by word of mouth and apprenticeship. I would be interested to know, for example, what the length of the sogokan should be in proportion to the overall blade. This is perhaps an overly simple question and again will probably vary by time and place. But I'm interested in how these rules were promulgated.

Regards,

Ian.

[A. G. Maisey]

To the best of my knowledge there is nothing written nor published that sets forth precise measurements , & realistically, there could not be.

I was taught certain angles & measurements, but they were taught as a guide, not as an iron bound rule.

A blade can vary in length, width, angle, the parts of the blade can vary in placement, for example the swell of the edge at front Chest) of the blade and the balancing swell at the back of the blade, ideally these are set at an angle that is in harmony with the other proportions of the blade. These proportions themselves vary according to the classification of a blade & the maker.

However, the overall requirement is that all the characteristics of the blade should be in harmony.

As to how this knowledge was passed on, it was word of mouth from the teacher to his student.

[JeffS]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Actually Jeff, carving steel & iron is no more difficult than carving wood, in fact, in some respects it is easier because you have no grain to accommodate. Of course, if we are working with steel we anneal the material before putting tools on it.

But it does take time.

This keris that I have shown is one of the keris that I have made, I welded the forging in Solo, & I carved it back in Australia. I worked with two strikers for 3 days, about 20 or so hours, to do the hot work, then it took around 45 days at 8 to 10 hours a day to carve it.

The sogokan on each side of the blade took 4 days per side.

So yes, although there is a degree of skill involved, the really important thing is understand what needs to be achieved & be prepared to take the necessary time to achieve it.

Incidentally, I used only traditional Javanese tools to carve this keris, I did not use any electric grinders, I used only files, scrapers, cold chisels & a hammer, the files I bought, the scrapers & chisels I made.

Wow Alan, that is phenomenal. Thank you for sharing.