Arms collecting and nostalgia

[Jim McDougall]

As a boy of about 9, I saw the movie "King of the Khyber Rifles" with Tyrone Power. My interest in the British in India was already raging with "Gunga Din" and "Lives of a Bengal Lancer". This movie, in color, was larger than life, and it seems there were caves and drama, intrigue which fascinated me. However, the title made a deep impression and I wondered in years to follow, 'just WHAT was a Khyber Rifle?
I did not recall or realize that the character in the movie was Capt, Alan King, played by Tyrone Power.
Years passed, and in the early 70s, I saw a newspaper article about the Khyber Pass titled something like 'still heading them off at the Khyber' and mentioned the 1953 film.......I was gone!!!

Years of research led me to the book "King of the Khyber Rifles" (Talbot Mundy, 1916) the basis for the movies..............then further I found that this was based on Sir Robert Burton titled "Eighteen Years in the Khyber" (1900) and told of his exploits commanding native units there in late 19th c.
Like in the Mundy book and movie, Warburton was both British and Afghan.

The 'Khyber Rifles' were a British army police levy comprised mostly of Afridi forces who were originally armed with their own tribal jezail long guns. These tribesmen were deadly snipers with these guns as told by Kipling in his famed poem "Frontier Arithmetic". ....and the book by Warburton has one of these on the cover (pictured).

In time the unit replaced the jezails with the modified Snider-Enfield rifle , a muzzle load musket converted to breech loading. A number of years later, these were replaced with the Martini-Henry rifle, also breech load.

So HERE were the KHYBER RIFLES, actually a British paramilitary unit in the Khyber Pass, and THESE were the types of rifles used.
The seeds of my curiosity planted in that movie seen as a young boy, and recalled two decades later, sent me on a quest researching this to the present day, and acquiring these rifles.
The badge was incredibly elusive and found one just two years ago.

[corrado26]

The only firearm I can remember and which has been very impressiv for me as a youngster was the "silverrifle" of Winnetou, the chief of Apaches, written by Karl May

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

The only firearm I can remember and which has been very impressiv for me as a youngster was the "silverrifle" of Winnetou, the chief of Apaches, written by Karl May

This is a fascinating entry Udo!!! The best thing about this kind of discussion is not just sharing memories and inspirations from sources we recall as kids, but learning about things we may not have known about.
I honestly had never heard of these stories, but it explains a lot about the European fascination with the 'wild west' in the late 19th century.

I wonder what type of rifle or gun was being depicted in the illustrations, and what I could find described it as a 'double barrel' gun, yet it has the artists rendering appearing to be in the form of a Kentucky long rifle.
While not nit picking with accuracy in the historicity of the wonderful literature and movies we saw as youngsters, it is interesting to look into what models or influences might have affected writers, artists and producers of films.

Thank you for adding this! Excited to learn more on "Winnetou" !

[gp]

Originally Posted by corrado26

The only firearm I can remember and which has been very impressiv for me as a youngster was the "silverrifle" of Winnetou, the chief of Apaches, written by Karl May

did you not see "Lederstrumpf" with Hellmut Lange.....?

or am I too old...☺☻☺

[werecow]

As a Dutchie, I also grew up with Floris, and Ivanhoe of course! And of course there were the three musketeers.

And I think various versions of Robin Hood instilled a moderate bow and arrow obsession in me. My sword collecting elementary school friend and I used to shoot bamboo shoots from the yard into the air randomly with his bow (it's kind of amazing we survived childhood now that I'm thinking about all the weaponry again, even if most of it was fake) - which in hindsight I think may have been some form of Indonesian traditional bow; I remember it was small but too heavy for us to fully draw, and had a quiver attached in front of the grip, kind of like the one below (but I think smaller and with a different curvature). I've just recently started dabbling in archery again.

[10thRoyal]

As someone born in the 90's, and I know I am going to get laughed out of here for calling this nostalgia, but I have to give some love to Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings. I am sorry Ralph Bakshi fans but it is the superior version.

Lord of the Rings was probably my first intro to arms and armor, and I watched those movies so many times that it's burned into my brain. And they weren't totally made up weapons either! They were semi-functional looking. And it lead me to reading a ton of Wikipedia pages on weapons and armor. And then i bought books on arms and armor. And now I'm here!

My brother asked for a chainmail hauberk for Christmas shortly after the second movie. I also received a cheap "El Cid" sword. I'm pretty sure that hauberk is the only reason my brother isn't full of holes.

And now I can watch those moviea and go "oh, I love Anglo-Saxon motifs on those swords guards". And I still love those movies.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by 10thRoyal

As someone born in the 90's, and I know I am going to get laughed out of here for calling this nostalgia, but I have to give some love to Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings. I am sorry Ralph Bakshi fans but it is the superior version.

Lord of the Rings was probably my first intro to arms and armor, and I watched those movies so many times that it's burned into my brain. And they weren't totally made up weapons either! They were semi-functional looking. And it lead me to reading a ton of Wikipedia pages on weapons and armor. And then i bought books on arms and armor. And now I'm here!

My brother asked for a chainmail hauberk for Christmas shortly after the second movie. I also received a cheap "El Cid" sword. I'm pretty sure that hauberk is the only reason my brother isn't full of holes.

And now I can watch those moviea and go "oh, I love Anglo-Saxon motifs on those swords guards". And I still love those movies.

NOT at all 10th!!! This is about nostalgia and what things from when we were kids drove us into these arms collecting obsessions. The other thread that has been running for some time is on actual vintage arms used in movies as props. In many cases actual antique weapon forms directly influenced the fantasy weapons of these kinds of films, games and literature.
It seems like there were weapons in this category in "Dungeons and Dragons" and others.
I think most if us still watch those old movies, and smile as we look at how far we've come as we hold 'the real thing'. !!
While we study the REAL weapons, we all try to keep the magic!

[Jim McDougall]

Among the many old films I loved watching were the Errol Flynn swashbucklers, notably "Captain Blood" (1935).
I was captivated by the amazing cup hilt rapiers!! and dashing sword fights.
Years later I took fencing for a short time, and much of the course had to do with 'stage combat'. I recall my dad as I told him I was taking this...."GREAT Jim! something you can always use!" he groused.

Naturally the cost of a genuine rapier was pretty far out of reach, but one day through amazing luck, I was able to get one! The Spanish cup hilt c. 1650s and I had literally found my way back to those wonderful films as I held it!
I would have not made it as a pirate...........who cares about doubloons and treasure? check out this cuphilt!

While rewatching this and other pirate movies of those times, technically many of the swords in the scenes were not cuphilts, but close enough for a wide eyed kid, and some scenes DID have the distinctive cuphilts.

Just added a letter from movie studio official re: Errol Flynns rapier used in the movie "Against All Flags"......found this in a post by our late colleague Fernando, who truly knew these weapons. A rapier thread came to life with his input.

[leicanthrope]

Nowhere near as far back as most, but I ended up with a number of firearms as a direct result of Red Dead Redemption 2. (I'm normally pretty focused on WWI-WWII stuff.)

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

As a boy of about 9, I saw the movie "King of the Khyber Rifles" with Tyrone Power. My interest in the British in India was already raging with "Gunga Din" and "Lives of a Bengal Lancer". .

Great story, thank you for sharing.

[Ed]

How could I have forgotten?



A movie theater was literally around the corner from me when I was a kid. I went to see this (alone!!!) and stayed in the theater for 3 showings. I was 8.

Thinking about it, it explains a lot.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ed

How could I have forgotten?



A movie theater was literally around the corner from me when I was a kid. I went to see this (alone!!!) and stayed in the theater for 3 showings. I was 8.

Thinking about it, it explains a lot.

Absolutely, a great movie!! Theater that close would have been a real problem for me...probably would have moved in!!!
While its great having movies etc available endlessly in our own homes these days, I really miss the big screen of theaters (and popcorn)
In the small town in Texas where I live, the only theater is closed and the nearest is a considerable distance in the next city.

[Victrix]

As a child of
7-9 years old I developed a strong interest in history. My favourite TV series was “Once upon a time.” (See pic below) Maybe it partly triggered my interest. My grandmother also encouraged it. When I reached my early teens she gave me the best Christmas gift ever! She gave me the cavalry sword of her late brother who was an officer in Kungliga Norrlands Dragoner stationed at K4 in Umeå. That triggered my interest in swords. Sadly her brother passed away at a relatively young age from tubercolosis. She kept his sword all those years and then gave it to me when she sensed an interest. Now it proudly hangs on the wall in my study.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Victrix

As a child of
7-9 years old I developed a strong interest in history. My favourite TV series was “Once upon a time.” (See pic below) Maybe it partly triggered my interest. My grandmother also encouraged it. When I reached my early teens she gave me the best Christmas gift ever! She gave me the cavalry sword of her late brother who was an officer in Kungliga Norrlands Dragoner stationed at K4 in Umeå. That triggered my interest in swords. Sadly her brother passed away at a relatively young age from tubercolosis. She kept his sword all those years and then gave it to me when she sensed an interest. Now it proudly hangs on the wall in my study.

While I dont know the series, I can see by the cartoons it explored the entire spectrum of history, and what a great way to expose youngsters to it!
If only our schooling of today taught history with any degree of dimension to kids, but thankfully these kinds of media venues provide the prompts to bring interest.

What an amazing and personal story of this cavalry sword! and all the better as it belonged to your great uncle, which brought you into the history it had seen with him. To have the actual weapon(s) of family members who have literally been involved in history themselves is pure treasure!!!
I'd love to see pics of the sword and him!

It is amazing at what a comprehensive interest this brought to you, and the knowledge on swords in general you gained and share here constantly.
Thank you for that and for sharing this.

[werecow]

When I was a kid I had already caught the more general collecting bug, and I was obsessed mainly with the Suske & Wiske comic books. I collected every one I could find and in several of them they went back to musketeer times:



I was already starting to become a bit obsessed with swords around that time and I really wanted one of those cup hilts. My first one was plastic. Now I have this one:



I still think of this as my Suske & Wiske sword.

Eventually I started a sword-like object collection with a friend of mine around the age of ten that consisted primarily of this kind of thing:



We used to playfight with these and they were pretty blade heavy. It's kind of a wonder we didn't bludgeon each other into the hospital. But that always had me wondering how those swordsmen could move those swords so fast in the movies, and because of that unwieldiness of those fake swords, I'm still very much fascinated by the feel of the weight distribution of various real swords and how big a difference that can make in their handling characteristics (which is why I am always a bit disappointed if a sword blade is loose when I buy it from abroad as it makes it more difficult to wave them around slightly). I was extremely jealous of my friend when one day he came home from vacation in Spain with a toreador sword and one of those Collada del Cid repros (we later did modern fencing together as an outflow of this shared sword fascination but I always found it a bit disappointing in how abstracted it was from the real thing and I was pretty terrible tbh; still, I should try my hand at HEMA some time).

I'll add here a story I told recently on Matt Easton's youtube channel. My uncle had a sword he got in Nigeria (a takouba, I later learned) and I was of course obsessed with it. Here in the Netherlands we celebrate Sinterklaas with presents which have a poem attached and are sometimes wrapped in a kind of arts and crafts project of sorts. One Sinterklaas in 1993, I got one of a paper maché dinosaur and my uncle's sword! The poem told me to slay the dinosaur. Inside were tickets to see Jurassic Park (dinosaurs were another obsession). I got to keep the sword, and I still have it until this day.



It's not sharp and it's not the highest quality takouba out there (and the blade is a bit loose in the hilt) but of course that one will never leave my collection.
It took me another 25+ years to start a real sword collection.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

While I dont know the series, I can see by the cartoons it explored the entire spectrum of history, and what a great way to expose youngsters to it!
If only our schooling of today taught history with any degree of dimension to kids, but thankfully these kinds of media venues provide the prompts to bring interest.

What an amazing and personal story of this cavalry sword! and all the better as it belonged to your great uncle, which brought you into the history it had seen with him. To have the actual weapon(s) of family members who have literally been involved in history themselves is pure treasure!!!
I'd love to see pics of the sword and him!

It is amazing at what a comprehensive interest this brought to you, and the knowledge on swords in general you gained and share here constantly.
Thank you for that and for sharing this.

Here is a photo of my great uncle and his cavalry sword. In the photo he is standing in front of Karlberg castle Military Academy in Stockholm where he received his officer training. He was an officer of Kungliga Norrlands Dragoner (K4) based in Umeå. Karlberg military academy est.1792 is allegedly the world’s oldest continuously operating from the original location military academy. The sword (a pallasch) was hung in a frog attached to the saddle.