Another "Berber Like Sword."

[drac2k]

To quote our scholarly Jim McDougall, this is a "Berber-like, Spanish Colonial Sword;"after reading all of the extensive threads on this weapon, I believe that is the safest description for that weapon. At times the sword has been referred to have been from Mexico or South America, however its description of being a Bolo would indicate it as being Philippine and the term "bolo," would have a different connotation from a sword in Central and South America. As noted in previous posts on the "Berber Like Sword," the blade is too long to be an effective machete (27").
The designs on the scabbard looked Philippine to me, however, it has a wooden insert, which I don't believe that the Central or South Americans, The people from the Caribbean, or the Philippines use, so maybe that makes an argument for the Berbers.
It is noted that the blade is "poison-tipped;" are we aware of any group that used this method on this type of sabre?
It is unfortunate that despite all the information on the scabbard, the only thing that wasn't told was where it came from.

[werecow]

I wouldn't take it as reliable information about the type or the origin either way. It reads like an ebay description of the sword.

These are interesting though. I saw a few on auction a month or two ago. Was this one of that batch?

[drac2k]

No, it was from Liveauctioneers; maybe someone bought it on Ebay and put it in the auction.
Interesting that you saw a batch as I don't see that many being sold; possibly they were from a collection.

[werecow]

They must have been. There were several at the same auction, but unfortunately I failed to save them to my files because life stuff. I was tempted to bid but I spent all my sword moneys on a crab claw hilted sword. I'm sure someone else on these boards must've noticed.

[Sajen]

Cuban sword so far I've understood. Sadly the unusual scabbard foot is missing.
Here were these swords discussed: https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...american+sword

[G. Mansfield]

From all the previous research that I have read, these swords are actually Dominican. One example is or was present in the Museo del Ejercito in Toledo, Spain, described as Dominican Republic, 1860 - 1864. Most seem to be from Cibao or Santo Domingo during the Dominican Restoration War Period or thereafter. I personally would take no mind to the sheath writing. It looks to be older but the description is more than likely by a previous seller that attributed it incorrectly. Here is the one that I have currently in my collection.

https://www.the-mansfield-collection...an-machete-396

-Geoffrey

[TVV]

Originally Posted by G. Mansfield

From all the previous research that I have read, these swords are actually Dominican. One example is or was present in the Museo del Ejercito in Toledo, Spain, described as Dominican Republic, 1860 - 1864. Most seem to be from Cibao or Santo Domingo during the Dominican Restoration War Period or thereafter.

I believe this to be the correct conclusion.

[Ian]

Hi drac,

As others have already noted, a northern African origin for these swords has been pretty much dismissed. That discussion is in the Archives. Instead, a Spanish Colonial origin from Latin America appears to be their actual source. Some of these machete/swords seem to have ended up in northern Africa, presumably via Spanish trade routes, which has confused the story somewhat and may have led some to think they were African in origin.

Thanks for reviving this topic It is some time since it was last raised and the African-origin idea persists.

Regards, Ian

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for the kind words Drac!!!!
I am more obsessive researcher than 'scholar' , and these 'Berber' sabers have intrigued me since I acquired one back in the 90s. leading to years of research. Back then virtually nobody I knew of knew quite what these were.
Finally when a few turned up in sales and auctions, they seemed to be situated in Mexican gulf areas and finally in the Caribbean.

Still the initial notations that these were 'Berber' remained the key classification, and when Mr. Tirri's comprehensive book in 2004 showed these as having been used in the Rif wars in Morocco (1921-26) it was seen how the Berber classification came about.

As has been noted here, these were basically stylized hilts mounted with typically old British light cavalry 1796 blades with reprofiled tips, and indeed associated with Guanabacoa in Cuba and some were marked in accord with Dominican regions. Apparently these repurposed blades were for use as a machete and the type became popular through the 19th century.

The 'Spanish Main' was quite alive and well from early 1800s in the Caribbean and Americas and British blades were prevalent there and many Spanish colonial swords were mounted with them.

There is no doubt of course that these in degree reached the Spanish domains in the Philippines in their trade networks, so these could easily have been present in those regions as claimed.
However the 'poison' thing is pure auction/sale hyperbole probably derived from the poison tipped arrows and spears used by natives in those regions for hunting.

As already well indicated by the other entries here, these interesting sabers were machete type swords from the Dominican Republic, Cuba and ports of call in Latin Americas and in use through the 19th c. As I have understood, the examples which ended up in the 'Berber' context were taken there by Cuban conscripts during the Rif wars, and discarded there. That they were not indiginous to these regions was suspected as they were never included in the profoundly comprehensive arms studies of Charles Buttin (1933) who lived in Morocco much of his life.

I just wanted to add these details, which were part of the wonderful adventures we shared here on these pages back in those early years of the forum
Very nice example, and I still have my example, and treasure it as a colorful example of the Spanish colonial periods and regions.

[drac2k]

Thanks to all for your comments. My sword looks identical to the one shown by G.Mansfield ; were these swords a standard issue/pattern?
The "poison tip," label may have been a selling ploy, but I cleaned the sword outside, wearing a mask, and gloves,lol.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Thanks to all for your comments. My sword looks identical to the one shown by G.Mansfield ; were these swords a standard issue/pattern?
The "poison tip," label may have been a selling ploy, but I cleaned the sword outside, wearing a mask, and gloves,lol.

good to be careful Drac, no telling what might come about. It seems I recall that the use of arsenic or other poisonous chemicals were sometimes used in finishing blades in some native cases and these might bring unfortunate results to the unwary handling them. Clearly there were no such things as 'regular' or standard patterns, but these obviously followed a popularized style which seems to have followed Spanish maritime networks over a considerable period, probably mid 19th century into 20th.

I recall the perpendicular handle at the end of the scabbard, and seeing this on an Ethiopian gurade (in "African Arms & Armor:, Chris Spring), causing the notion these might have had some connection, but the idea seems unfounded. These handles were for holding the scabbard while withdrawing the blade with the effect of tropical damp on leather etc keeping the hand off the scabbard itself ( blade bites through leather).

[drac2k]

Thanks for the comments Jim. My wife saw me cleaning the sword, using all of my above listed precautions and stated "I'm finally glad to see you are being careful with those things;" before she saw the "poison blade," inscription which caused another conversation.
I seem to remember, either a Corsican, Spanish, or Moroccan, etc., dagger with holes in the center of the blade where a poison paste would be inserted(or at least I think so), so I wasn't taking any chances.