repurposed rapier blades

[urbanspaceman]

Yes, I absolutely mean 600 and 650gr... what was I thinking?!
Those are exactly the kind of early smallswords we find predominating up in the North of the British Isles. They were made in Shotley Bridge between 1688 and 1691 but almost certainly nearer to '88. I have seen several more of almost identical design.
They would have been in the hands of local Jacobites and were definitely dress swords. The military versions were horseman's swords with broader blades of the same length (30") but those blades were smuggled in from Solingen and feature the Passau Wolf, whereas the smallswords have the Oley bushy tailed fox.
You make a very valid point re. refashioning rapier blades: the Portuguese one above has a flattened diamond profile which is maintained down to the foible; it is perfect throughout its length. It makes me consider if it was not always that length and if so, for what? Were they buying stock, ready to mount in smallswords? Every question has three following up.
The blade is dedicated to the queen of Portugal which is obviously Maria 1st (1777 - 1816) which helps put it in chronological perspective.
You raise a good point regarding the annuletts but that Portuguese sword has typical short 'branches'; that, of course, is the hilt design which looks much later than Queen Maria 1st so it was a re-purposed blade combination.
BTW. the link to your measurements does not work.
Purely for your interest, I am including my 1767 French officer's sword, of which I am particularly fond. It bears a strong resemblance, in some fashion, to my Shotley Bridge smallswords. A longer blade, but a similar balance in the hand... and very sharp. Let me have an active link so I can see yours; does it feature a cartouche at the ricasso?

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Yes, I absolutely mean 600 and 650gr... what was I thinking?!
Those are exactly the kind of early smallswords we find predominating up in the North of the British Isles. They were made in Shotley Bridge between 1688 and 1691 but almost certainly nearer to '88. I have seen several more of almost identical design.
They would have been in the hands of local Jacobites and were definitely dress swords. The military versions were horseman's swords with broader blades of the same length (30") but those blades were smuggled in from Solingen and feature the Passau Wolf, whereas the smallswords have the Oley bushy tailed fox.

Those are heavy smallswords, my heaviest is the Spanish cup-hilted one at 640 grams and that has a 34.5 inch blade.

What I mean by military use, is that we know some officers would carry swords (such as rapiers, smallswords or hunting hangers) that weren’t strictly ‘military battle swords’. Maybe these gentlemen wanted a sword that gave them more options against a backsword.

Alternatively could they be what was called ‘shearing swords’ on a smallsword hilt? That wonderful grey area we modern collectors love and hate.

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

You make a very valid point re. refashioning rapier blades: the Portuguese one above has a flattened diamond profile which is maintained down to the foible; it is perfect throughout its length. It makes me consider if it was not always that length and if so, for what? Were they buying stock, ready to mount in smallswords? Every question has three following up.

We know that there was international commerce back to ancient times, so specialisation of production was well established by the time your blade was produced. German, Italian or Spanish made blades would be shipped across Europe to be hilted by local cutlers to meet the tastes of the local market. It is not unreasonable to believe that adjustments were made in the final fit and finish.

I think we need to consider the economics of the time as well, materials were expensive while labour was not. Would they throw away steel on a grinder? The re-using of a blade makes economic sense, but how much steel would they be prepared to waste in the process?

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Let me have an active link so I can see yours; does it feature a cartouche at the ricasso?

Odd that the link doesn’t work, it should take you to a page on the SBG Sword forums that lists my swords with links that then go to each sword (photos and stats). Here’s the full text to copy and paste:

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/t...d-measurements

for example the link to my cup-hilted smallsword is: https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/post/898439

Or the French m1767: https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/post/878362

[urbanspaceman]

Those two smallswords were forged by Adam Oley in Shotley Bridge in c.1688.
They were hilted by a cutler in (The Side) Newcastle, name of Thomas Carnforth.
It is suspected, but as yet unconfirmed, that the larger of the two was presented to the Duke of Northumberland, George Fitzroy, illegitimate son of Charles II, Commander of the 2nd Troop of Horse, along with a Horseman's sword with a smuggled Solingen blade (see pics) and the motifs of the 2nd troop on the shell.
As I said in my opening assertion: we in the North of Britain were slow to adopt the hollow blade smallsword, and were keen to still have some weight and two cutting edges, even when 'off-duty'.
Soon after, John Holles, Duke of Newcastle, commissioned backswords for his militia: they also were forged by Adam Oley in Shotley Bridge (see pic). They were marked SHOTLEY and BRIDGE on either side of the blade.
Holles was a firm royalist, but James II's insistence on a Catholic country (Holles was a staunch protestant) led Holles to support Danby against the King's supporters at York.
I'm afraid all I get when I go to SBG is a blank screen.

[urbanspaceman]

Sorry, that was the wrong shell image; here is the correct one.

[midelburgo]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...286#post269286

I pictured in that thread a Spanish smallsword from early to middle XVIII th century, with a Spanish rapier blade by Pedro del Monte (working in Toledo, c1610 to c1630). The rapier blade has been ground into a colichemarde shape, and total length is still 1.03m