Where's the Wootz?

[urbanspaceman]

Saladin considered the source of the miracle metal so important he built a castle to guard the mine. What I meant when I said "the Germans would probably not have access to it" was the mine and its forges not the iron ore.
Solingen has always had access to ore with a vanadium content.
Birmingham didn't, incidentally, until they could get Oregrounds. Hence, crap swords all through the Middle Ages right up to the 1700s when Germans migrated there from Shotley Bridge and eventually taught us Brits a thing or two.
Still thinking about why Solingen never used the Crucible method - assuming they had learned the secrets from Damascus smiths – was it perhaps achieving suitably high temperatures. How did the Middle Eastern smiths achieve this?
I've been busy today but I will get stuck into studying those additional sources tomorrow; too tired now.

[urbanspaceman]

'The Secrets of Wootz Damascus Steel'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP8P...ist=WL&index=1
I have now twice watched this brilliant documentary from six years ago, and realised that, while I may have retained odds and ends of details, the full story had become blurred. The business of the glass, for instance, is a perfect example.
Up to now, in my opinion, this must be one of the best introductions to the history and science of Wootz, and I would seriously suggest anyone with a passing interest in the history of sword-blade making devote an hour to watching it.
It pretty much wraps up this thread.
Of course, YouTube is full of recent takes on the issue, and I – again – warn you not to delve any deeper unless you have plenty time to spare.
My thanks to our 'Interested Party' for providing this valuable research material.

[Ian]

I would strongly recommend searching this site for answers to questions about wootz. The Ethnographic Forum has several excellent threads on the subject. Anything that Dr Ann Feuerbach has written on these Forums is well worth careful consideration. Her PhD and subsequent work has been on wootz. She has an article on this subject on the Vikingsword home page (click on the Viking sword at the top of this page). In this article she states:

"So-called “watered” or “damascus” steel objects were made of crucible steel. Crucible steel was a specific method of steel making and it was only produced in certain areas. Despite the common use of the term “damascus”, there is no evidence that it was ever produced in Damascus, Syria (Elgood, 1994, 103-108), but rather in various locations in India, Sri Lanka, Central Asia and Persia. Its appearance in other locations was due to trade or booty. Among evidence for the trade in finished products, there is also evidence for trade in intermediate products including ingots and steel bars, destined to be forged into shape and decorated in different places to reflect local taste and use of the consumer.

I favor Ann's opinion about wootz over anything you might find on You Tube. Also, there has been considerable debate about the quality of modern crucible steel and its relation to traditional wootz. The consensus seems to be that "modern wootz" is not the same as traditional wootz. You can find these discussions also on the Ethnographic Forum pages.

[Peter Hudson]

The excellent video mentioned several times is a great place to kick off on WOOTZ as are the many articles here on Forum and already noted. To say the least however not being a blacksmith or metalurgist or forge worker is a distinct disadvantage ...notwithstanding that I must refer to the very superb video again...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHRlJ3BSyN8

Kieth I forgot to mention that on the video at about 1899 on the timer it looks at the glass situation that was a simple trick to prevent oxygen getting into the mix. It acted as a sealant.

I noted that the wootz ore mine was in the introduction and The great ruler Salaadin had a castle built over it for protection...That was at Ajloan. The arabic saying for the best swordblade was Falooji Johar.

I also noted a lot of descriptive pointers or descriptives.. For example it cleverly describes WOOTZ as having Hardness, Toughness, Flexibility , Durability and a beautiful pattern.

Regards,
Peter Hudson.

[urbanspaceman]

There is a limit to how much metallurgical science I can assimilate, and... truth be told - need to.
I felt Al Pendray's successes, and the accompanying history in the video, fulfilled my quest for an answer.
Any more depth of research simply bewilders my layman's brain.
However, I must encourage others to follow-up on Ian's advice to see if there is more of pertinence to be discovered.

[Copycat]

Hello,

Reading this chapter on wootz is really recommended.

https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/am...ne/ra_4_1.html

Production was unlikely in Arabic countries due economic reasons. It's cheaper to import. And there is still no evidence found of early production sites in Arabic countries.

Kind regards,