Hilt Identification

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you gentlemen.

Your responses demonstrate the problem I have had to the present time.

Hopefully a few more people might like to post a confident opinion.

Is anybody able to nominate an authoritative reference?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Is anybody able to nominate an authoritative reference?

Hello Alan,

Sadly no! But I think that it's indeed a stylized makara handle, compare it with a pedang handle from Lombok. Another possible origin.
When I am correct, we only have to look where makara handles were used, direct to mind coming Java, Sunda, Sumatra and Lombok.

[A. G. Maisey]

It might well be so Detlef, but other people have had other ideas.

For myself, I do not know, & that's why I'm looking for some certainty.

[kai]

Hello Alan,

No convincing, much less any confident opinion from my side, I'm afraid.

Pics from more angles may help. How old would you estimate this hilt to be? (From the pic, the carving quality doesn't seem to be especially high...)

However, in my opinion, any similarity would need to be really close to allow for any reasonable inference on its origin (or even possible meaning).

Regards,
Kai

[Ian]

Hello Alan,

You have presented a real test. Like most who have posted already, I don't recognize this pommel. However, I would like to comment on what we can see of the rest of this hilt. The grip area seems to be hexagonal in cross-section. That strikes me as unusual for an Indonesian bladed weapon or tool. You are far more expert on Indonesian knives and swords than anyone here, so perhaps you could comment on this feature of your hilt.

Multifaceted hilts are very common in the Philippines, and I wonder whether there is a multicultural aspect to this hilt. If your hilt were a recognized pattern, you would have found an answer to its origins by now. It seems to be unique. For me, that always raises the possibility of a multicultural item that has been influenced by an element foreign to the local one.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you Kai & Ian.

Ian, the rest of the stem section of the hilt is exactly the same as you can see in the photograph. Faceted hilts are very common in Indonesia, especially in Jawa, the dominant Javanese keris hilt is faceted, as is the hilt of the wedung, and the many small work knives of Jawa & Bali also frequently have faceted hilts.

Kai, I do have some info that relates to date & time of purchase in Indonesia, however, I wanted to keep this out of the discussion because what I am seeking is an opinion that can be substantiated, perhaps from authoritative source material.
In respect of carving quality, I would classify the quality of carving execution as high, but design as simple.

Similarly, the weapon itself must be kept out of discussion.

What I'm hoping for is somebody who has either lived in the area where this form is known, or visited it, or has seen the form published. An opinion that can be substantiated with evidence, or with logical argument.

If I were to accept simply the point of original acquisition as a reasonable indicator of origin I might opt for that place, but my mind does not work in this way.

However, I can state with some degree of certainty that this hilt does pre-date 1920, & that it was purchased in the area of the world that is now known as Indonesia.

[Athanase]

Hello,

The finesse and straightness of the gripping part reminds me more of the Filipino handles (talibong or pira etc...).
If it's Indonesian, I was seeing something from Sumatra and more from the first half of the 20th century. The pattern reminds me of what you can see on certain batak and minang floral engravings but never on handles.
A very stylized Nias balato grip is also a solution but the Timor group D grips are really very close and would perhaps be the best solution.

It's really not easy!