Karabela - the nicest you have seen

ariel · 9th July 2006, 11:29 PM

It is worth it!!!!!
Am I seeing an eagle on the scabbard?
My guess it is Croatian/Hungarian/Transylvanian rather than Polish: far too rich.

Rather · 10th July 2006, 09:07 AM

I don't think that it is an eagle. To me it looks like the Christian symbol of Pelican in her piety. (photo for reference)
Could be a sword of a Knight of an Order.

Tim Simmons · 10th July 2006, 09:47 AM

Roman Catholic order of the swan? Prussian?

Tim Simmons · 10th July 2006, 10:08 AM

The bird on the chain does look like she is feeding young from her own blood.
I could not get any very good info in a google search "order of the pelican"

Rather · 10th July 2006, 10:38 AM

There is an Order of the Swan, Brandenburgischer Schwanenorden, but the design of the bird is quite different from the one on the sword. The chain of this order looks like this.
I have not heard of any order of the pelican, but the symbol might be used by any Christian order, it is very common in Christian graphical representation.

Tim Simmons · 10th July 2006, 12:14 PM

Must be from a Christian Knights Order. The colours of the stones are seen in the Hungarian flag?

Valjhun · 10th July 2006, 12:38 PM

It looks that my friend misspleled the family name... it is not Bahtiany but rather Batthyány.

From Wikipedia: Batthyány is the name of an old distinguished Hungarian Magnate family.They were first mentioned in documents in 1398 and had their ancestral seat in Güssing in the Austrian region Burgenland since 1522. In 1570, Balthasar Batthyány transformed the seat of the family, Güssing, into the center of protestantism in the region. His descendant however, Adam Batthyány (* 1610, † 1659) was catholic and founded a Franciscan monastery in Güssing (in the south of the present-day Burgenland). Lajos Batthyány became the first Prime Minister of Hungary during the revolution of 1848 and was executed in Pest in 1849. After 1945 the Batthyány family was largely expropriated in the then socialist countries, although they kept some important property in the Burgenland, Austria. They had also properties near the city of Maribor (Slovenia).

And there is their coat of arms... It is a swan

looks my friend was right attributing that sword to that precise noble family and the colour of the jewels as Tim stated indeed represents the hungarian flag. I guess that it was confiscated and kept some 60 years ago by some yugoslav communist officer or aktivist.

It seems that the guy on the photo below is wearing a verry similar collar, and BTW that is not a knightly order collar, it is a mantle bearer.

What about the age? I would think about 1849 looking at the nationalistic hungarian colors on it

The price is faaar above my current finance situation. If anybody is interested I can arrange a meeting.

10th July 2006, 09:07 AM	#2
Rather Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 72	I don't think that it is an eagle. To me it looks like the Christian symbol of Pelican in her piety. (photo for reference) Could be a sword of a Knight of an Order. Attached Images

10th July 2006, 10:38 AM	#5
Rather Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 72	There is an Order of the Swan, Brandenburgischer Schwanenorden, but the design of the bird is quite different from the one on the sword. The chain of this order looks like this. I have not heard of any order of the pelican, but the symbol might be used by any Christian order, it is very common in Christian graphical representation. Attached Images

10th July 2006, 12:38 PM	#7
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	It looks that my friend misspleled the family name... it is not Bahtiany but rather Batthyány. From Wikipedia: Batthyány is the name of an old distinguished Hungarian Magnate family.They were first mentioned in documents in 1398 and had their ancestral seat in Güssing in the Austrian region Burgenland since 1522. In 1570, Balthasar Batthyány transformed the seat of the family, Güssing, into the center of protestantism in the region. His descendant however, Adam Batthyány (* 1610, † 1659) was catholic and founded a Franciscan monastery in Güssing (in the south of the present-day Burgenland). Lajos Batthyány became the first Prime Minister of Hungary during the revolution of 1848 and was executed in Pest in 1849. After 1945 the Batthyány family was largely expropriated in the then socialist countries, although they kept some important property in the Burgenland, Austria. They had also properties near the city of Maribor (Slovenia). And there is their coat of arms... It is a swan looks my friend was right attributing that sword to that precise noble family and the colour of the jewels as Tim stated indeed represents the hungarian flag. I guess that it was confiscated and kept some 60 years ago by some yugoslav communist officer or aktivist. It seems that the guy on the photo below is wearing a verry similar collar, and BTW that is not a knightly order collar, it is a mantle bearer. What about the age? I would think about 1849 looking at the nationalistic hungarian colors on it The price is faaar above my current finance situation. If anybody is interested I can arrange a meeting. Attached Images Last edited by Valjhun; 10th July 2006 at 01:10 PM.

9th July 2006, 11:29 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is worth it!!!!! Am I seeing an eagle on the scabbard? My guess it is Croatian/Hungarian/Transylvanian rather than Polish: far too rich.

10th July 2006, 09:47 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Roman Catholic order of the swan? Prussian?

10th July 2006, 10:08 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	The bird on the chain does look like she is feeding young from her own blood. I could not get any very good info in a google search "order of the pelican"

10th July 2006, 12:14 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Must be from a Christian Knights Order. The colours of the stones are seen in the Hungarian flag?