The Purpose of Keris Panjang

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by milandro

.... and you see how condiderably simpler the construction of more modern Panjang is let alone the fact that the modern ones seem often to show pamor which the older ones don't have.

That is so not true! There are antique panjang blades with pamor like you can see by one of my examples.

[milandro]

well, obviously , as you show, there are some examples such as these .

Interesting though the fact that the blades with pamor in the examples above seem to show no fuller and construction similar to the modern example with pamor. Maybe some forging reason why that is?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by milandro

well, obviously , as you show, there are some examples such as these .

Interesting though the fact that the blades with pamor in the examples above seem to show no fuller and construction similar to the modern example with pamor. Maybe some forging reason why that is?

I frankly have no clue! I only know that the construction is called kapit, see here for more info: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=panjang

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

When a pamor blade is made it is usually made of a very thin steel core and with a plate of pamor material welded to each face of the steel core.

If deep fullers & other carving is added to the blade it will cut through the pamor plates and expose the plain material of the core, thus losing the enhancement of pamor.

We see pretty much the same thing with Javanese & Balinese blades, it comes down to whether we want a blade with pamor or a blade with carved enhancements.

There is a way of making a blade where we can have our cake & eat it too, & that is to make the entire central body of the blade of pamor material, & then weld an edge into this pamor, but this method of construction is very seldom encountered, & I have not seen a blade made in this way that is younger than a couple of hundred years old.

The word "kapit" is Malay, it means to support on each side. My understanding of this word when applied to keris is that it refers to a blade that has had part of the blade rivetted to the other part of the blade. However, I guess that it could also apply to a pamor blade, because the core of a pamor blade is supported on either side by the pamor material.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

When a pamor blade is made it is usually made of a very thin steel core and with a plate of pamor material welded to each face of the steel core.

If deep fullers & other carving is added to the blade it will cut through the pamor plates and expose the plain material of the core, thus losing the enhancement of pamor.

Thank you Alan, sounds logical!

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Not just logical Detlef, actual as well:-

think of a chocolate cake

nice, thick, rich, moist choccy cake

tastes great

now Grandma slaps thick, high qual Belgium chocolate icing onto it

she adds the thick, freshly whipped cream

then some maraschino cherries

looks fantastic

blows away the diet with one slice

little Teddy sees that cake

Little Teddy loves choccy icing

and cream, and cherries

Little Teddy got no weight problem

he takes a spoon to Grandma's choccy masterpiece and removes all that enhancement

what everybody else is left with is unenhanced chocolate cake

same as keris:- scrape off the pamor, what you got is plain old garden quality steel.

[Pendita65]

The Fountain of Knowledge has spoken, and yes a good choclate cake hmm could do with a slice now.

Regards, Martin

[milandro]

indeed, as I suspected, there was a reason set in the forging methods.

Again then the question arises on the weapon being made to be actually used as a weapon ( the fuller make the weapon lighter and the consequent risers make it more robust to hitting other blades) . If the only purpose was to create a decoration item and there is a lot of decoration content (let alone a symbolic one) in a keris with a pamor along such a long blade, why would they have gone through the forging process which is highly suited to create a weapon apt to be used in combat against another blade?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Not just logical Detlef, actual as well:-

think of a chocolate cake

nice, thick, rich, moist choccy cake

tastes great

now Grandma slaps thick, high qual Belgium chocolate icing onto it

she adds the thick, freshly whipped cream

then some maraschino cherries

looks fantastic

blows away the diet with one slice

little Teddy sees that cake

Little Teddy loves choccy icing

and cream, and cherries

Little Teddy got no weight problem

he takes a spoon to Grandma's choccy masterpiece and removes all that enhancement

what everybody else is left with is unenhanced chocolate cake

same as keris:- scrape off the pamor, what you got is plain old garden quality steel.

[oariff]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Not just logical Detlef, actual as well:-

think of a chocolate cake

nice, thick, rich, moist choccy cake

tastes great

now Grandma slaps thick, high qual Belgium chocolate icing onto it

she adds the thick, freshly whipped cream

then some maraschino cherries

looks fantastic

blows away the diet with one slice

little Teddy sees that cake

Little Teddy loves choccy icing

and cream, and cherries

Little Teddy got no weight problem

he takes a spoon to Grandma's choccy masterpiece and removes all that enhancement

what everybody else is left with is unenhanced chocolate cake

same as keris:- scrape off the pamor, what you got is plain old garden quality steel.

Hi Alan,

Now would this blade be pamor or a blade that went wrong?

From Peninsular Malaysia perhaps?

Length: 56 cm from Tip to base of Ganja.

Cheers.