Another Surakarta Keris

[jagabuwana]

Happy new year JustYS and all reading.

A very nice keris indeed. Thank you for sharing.

[A. G. Maisey]

YS, I have the same publication, on P.24 we have the straight version of Condong Campur (A), underneath that text in faint almost invisible print we have: (B)= keluk 7, hal. 54.

So we have a look at page 54, and hey presto --- a 7 luk version.

If we look at EK, the characteristics of Condong Campur vary a bit, and the 7 luk version is not mentioned.

If we look at KJ (ie, HH) we find that HH lists a CC lurus & a CC luk 7.

The simple fact of the matter is that all this stuff about what is and what is not correct terminology is only good if we quote the source that we have drawn upon. As with many things in Jawa, & I guess Indonesia in general, things are not graven in stone.

[David]

This is, of course, a completely different dhapur, but i am adding it here for another example of a modern era keris with pamor wengkon. If i am not mistaken i believe this would qualify as wengkon isen as it is wengkon with another pamor contained within its border. I believe this has a fairly well controlled wengkon.

[A. G. Maisey]

I have not heard of pamor wengkon isen.

It does not appear in EK, nor in KJ. In fact in KJ, HH calls pamor wengkon "pamor tepen", another term I have not heard used in Solo.

The word "isen" comes from "isi" = "contents", "isen" is normally used as "isen-isen", again meaning "contents", so "wengkon isen" is actually a description, not a name.

HH's name for pamor wengkon, ie, "pamor tepen", I find to be very peculiar, because "tepen" means "a decorative border".

In Solo, I have only ever heard pamor wengkon referred to as "pamor wengkon", and when another pamor is found within the border of the wengkon it would be referred to by its name, in the case of David's fine example, this would be "pamor wengkon and kuta mesir", again, a description, not a name, but a description that names the two component pamor motifs.

Keris terminology varies all over the place, broadly, it is not fixed, and I personally believe a lot of keris terminology these days has been made up to cover lack of knowledge or to satisfy the needs of a person or group.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Keris terminology varies all over the place, broadly, it is not fixed, and I personally believe a lot of keris terminology these days has been made up to cover lack of knowledge or to satisfy the needs of a person or group.

Thanks Alan, i am sure quite a lot of names have been made up in the keris world just in the past few years. I had heard the term "wengkon isen" elsewhere before this thread and it does seem to be a fair descriptor for a pamor held within a wengkon pamor. But i am just as pleased to refer to my keris as "wengkon kuta mesir" as well, which would be more specific. I used the term here mostly because JustYS had asked about above.

[A. G. Maisey]

David, when I saw it used as a name, & not as a descriptor, I googled it, and I got a lot of hits, so, within the collector community it now apparently in common usage.

My point in commenting at all was just to reiterate what I've been saying for years:- there really is no "standard" terminology, yeah, there can be terms that are overall, pretty generally used, but to say one thing is right & another thing is wrong, is now, & probably always has been not really in synch with the real world.

HH with his "pamor tepen" points this up too. To my mind it is absolutely incorrect, it is not something I've ever heard used for pamor wengkon, & when we consider the Javanese meaning, it is just out & out wrong. But HH was real big in the collector world, so who am I to argue with him? He might have made it up himself, or he might have heard it somewhere or other & liked it.

I reckon we need to stay fairly open minded where keris terminology is concerned.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by David

This is, of course, a completely different dhapur, .

.
Personally I'm not a fan of the overall profiles at the base and gonjo, I do really like the contrast and pamor within this blade though, very smart looking.
Appreciation for what the artist has done with the metals and finish is deserved.

It looks somewhat like a long flowing Wayang profile seen within the top layers of spiral turns in that central block. Something one may consider auspicious.

[JustYS]

Thank you Jagabuwana.

Thank you for your answer Alan, it seems that my Dhapur copy is incomplete.

In Luk 7 section I only have: Sempana Panjul, Carubuk, Sempana Bungkem, Sepokal (A), Murda Malela, Kidang Soka, Jaran Guyang, Panji Semedi and Naga Keras.

What a gorgeous Keris David.

[Gustav]

Regarding Pamor Wengkon:

Winter, who came from an old family of translators at the Keraton of Surakarta, uses the name Pamor Wengkon in his 1871 book, apparently for a true Pamor Wengkon.

Groneman uses the name Pamor Tepi for a Mlumah border, inside of which there is contained another Pamor. He doesn't mention a "pure" Wengkon. Groneman's information comes mainly from Yogyakarta.

Jasper&Mas Pirngadie mention Pamor Tepi exactly the same way as Groneman, they possibly took it over from Groneman, as they did with Winter's Wengkon, mentioning the source.

Actually HH in his book uses both terms, Tepen and Wengkon.

The possibilities are

1) name Pamor Tepi was used only for Wengkon containing another Pamor within its border, perhaps only in Yogayakarta;

2) name Pamor Tepi was used in Yogyakarta, Pamor Wengkon in Surakarta for the same Pamor, including "pure" Pamor Wengkon.

[Gustav]

And in Gronemans article in van Duuren's redaction, p.81, after excerpt with Winter's Pamor designs, which include Wengkon, there is a mention of Tepen:

"In an enumeration of seventeen pamor motifs from a collection of manuscripts owned by Resident Couperus, I found another four new names:

(...)
2. tepen, possibly an edge pamor without anything else.

That would mean, Pamor Tepen likely is an old Yogyakarta name for Pamor Wengkon (Couperus was Resident in Yogyakarta).