Sword for identification

[Tim Simmons]

The script might depend on how well it is cut into the blade. The person whow cut it might have been illiterate and copying poorly written script?

[milandro]

looking around came across this thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1655

the sword MAY be Armenian or Caucasian but is it me or this blade is just too crisp to be really old ?



I would suggest sending a mail to this Armenian museum

https://historymuseum.am/en/հայաստան...#1381;ն/

[Tim Simmons]

Cool.

[Oliver Pinchot]

It isn't Armenian, though some of the characters are similar to Armenian, also to Russian. They were likely intended to seem like a foreign inscription, rather than any particular meaning per se.

This work was done in the general region of N. Iran, possibly Azarbaijan, after 1900. It was most likely made for the Shi'ite Ashura.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

It isn't Armenian, though some of the characters are similar to Armenian, also to Russian. They were likely intended to seem like a foreign inscription, rather than any particular meaning per se.

This work was done in the general region of N. Iran, possibly Azarbaijan, after 1900. It was most likely made for the Shi'ite Ashura.

Спасибо Оливер Пинчот
Каджарское происхождение предмета очень интересная версия, но надпись опровергает эту версию. По мнению экспертов имитация любого другого шрифта на персидском предмете каджарского периода абсолютно исключена.
В ходе своих поисков, я пришел к выводу, что предмет нужно рассматривать в комплексе. На нем слишком много неопознанных и противоречивых элементов. Возможно, разгадка будет найдена если будет найден подобный меч.
По надписи – текст повторяется, похоже на некое заклинание.

Thanks Oliver Pinchot
The Qajar origin of the object is a very interesting version, but the inscription refutes this version. According to experts, imitation of any other script on a Persian object from the Qajar period is absolutely impossible.
During my search, I came to the conclusion that the subject needs to be considered in its entirety. There are too many unidentified and contradictory elements on it. Perhaps the answer will be found if a similar sword is found.
According to the inscription, the text is repeated, it looks like some kind of spell.

[Tim Simmons]

I think there is some similarity to the artwork to this piece? almost the same hand?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29643

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I think there is some similarity to the artwork to this piece? almost the same hand?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29643

Hi Tim

IMHO there is only a slight resemblance in appearance. The technique is different.

Pay attention to the shape of the sword hilt and the element that I highlighted. This detail has not yet been found on other swords.

Also, take a close look at the men on the handle, they are clearly Asian in appearance.

Regards, Yuri

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

It isn't Armenian, though some of the characters are similar to Armenian, also to Russian. They were likely intended to seem like a foreign inscription, rather than any particular meaning per se.

This work was done in the general region of N. Iran, possibly Azarbaijan, after 1900. It was most likely made for the Shi'ite Ashura.

Hi Oliver Pinchot! You are absolutely right.

After 5 years of searching, I received authoritative conclusions from specialists on Iran - a sword for Ashura, a Caucasian item, presumably Azerbaijan and Dagestan, where all these ceremonies were and are held.

According to experts, this version is confirmed by the quality of the blade, patterns, mythological images (pre-Islamic folk imagery was woven into the t'azie texts), ornaments, the quality of the metal carving and the imitation of the inscription with some letters reminiscent of Armenian, the shape of the handle, the binder with the tang.

Shiites in all communities of the world celebrate Ashura as a mourning day and conduct a complex of ritual actions: mourning ceremonies and rituals in memory of the martyrdom in 680 (or 61 AH) of the son of Ali, grandson of the Prophet Muhammad - Imam Hussein, his brother Abbas and an army of 70 shahids as a result of the battle with the troops of Caliph Yazid I in the Battle of Karbala. One of the ceremonies in which weapons were used was the so-called t'azie-je šabi - theatrical performances based on the events of Karbala, which were staged during the period of 'ashura' and in the following month of Safar. These mysteries appeared in the middle of the 18th century, although many researchers date them back to the end of the 17th century. One could come to these performances for free, and they were usually organized by wealthy townspeople, for example, merchants, at their own expense. Organizing such performances, as well as participating in them, was a godly deed, and there were quite a few places where these performances took place, called takia or hosayniya.

Takia were decorated according to the possibilities of the organizers, it is noted that among other elements of the design of takie, "very large sabers made of some soft metal with carved hilts that hang from the walls and sway" are mentioned.

The types of blades, their sizes, design and, in general, the composition of the weapons depended on the specific place where the t'azie was held.

At one time, the Iranian researcher Shahidi wrote:

- that if, for example, the shawls used to decorate the takia could be easily bought at the bazaar, then it was much more difficult to acquire the equally necessary "shamshir, armor, helmet and standard." Therefore, it must be assumed that such weapons were mostly made to order, and their quality should have varied depending on the amount of takia donations spent on them or the amount of funds of those people who arranged the t'azie.

Shiites make up a significant part of the population in the Caucasus, especially in Azerbaijan and partly in Dagestan, as well as in other regions of the Caucasus.

Thus, it can be assumed with a high degree of probability that an order was made for the manufacture of this sword to conduct the ritual. The craftsmen could have been of Armenian origin.

The same authoritative source noted that the pseudo-inscription should not be confusing - such could well be on Ashura items, because in the 19th century, not everyone knew Arabic well in the Iranian-speaking environment, especially in the Caucasus.

There is nothing special to read in the pseudo-text, but one should not treat it with disdain either - this is an attempt to introduce the object into the intellectual culture to which weapons have always belonged.

All such items were made individually and everything depended solely on the customer’s wallet and the imagination of the performer.

[Ian]

Wonderful rundown of this highly unusual sword Yuri. Thanks to Oliver also, and other contributors, for this most interesting discussion.

Ian