Identification Assistance Requested - New Collector

Gustav · 28th November 2023, 08:17 PM

I understand that this is a tricky one. Thank you, Alan, for your comment!

Regarding execution of the figure, with my limited experience I can say, that old examples I have seen mostly have been vertically elongated. This is the first time I see a wing executed in this way, perhaps I have seen these bat-like ears before, but I don't recall where - quite unusual. The cuts in metal at forelegs and turtle (?) are not smooth at all and look comparatively fresh. The very long hind legs are very unusual for an old Balinese Singo. Actually it doesn't look like a Singo to me at all.

A. G. Maisey · 29th November 2023, 01:52 AM

Gustav, what we believe we can see in something depends very much on what we have seen in the past. To me, this singa is 100% Balinese, to you it is not. I don't have any problem with this. Each carver has his own interpretations.

Gustav · 29th November 2023, 06:43 AM

Alan, that's absolutely true. My experience is limited to museum collections and old blades.

A. G. Maisey · 29th November 2023, 06:59 AM

I have not seen a lot of museum collections that feature carvings of the singa, maybe a few in the National Gallery of Australia, a few in Balinese museums, but I have nearly 60 years worth of visits to Bali, and I have seen more carvings of the singa than I could possibly count. All quality levels, all ages, numerous variations.

Gustav · 29th November 2023, 03:35 PM

Just to illustrate how big the distance is of this figure from classical Balinese Singo.

Now I remember where I did see such big and erect ears on Balinese carvings - on monkey masks.

Jean · 29th November 2023, 04:34 PM

IMO the carved winged animal on the gandik does not depict a singa but Garuda, see what it is holding in its front legs (snake or turtle?) and compare with the attached image from the Tropenmuseum.
Regards

Gustav · 29th November 2023, 06:48 PM

A depiction of turtle as a base of another figure is not uncommon at all on Gandhik of Balinese Keris, but I have yet to see an authentic Garuda depiction on an old Balinese Keris.

29th November 2023, 03:35 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	Just to illustrate how big the distance is of this figure from classical Balinese Singo. Now I remember where I did see such big and erect ears on Balinese carvings - on monkey masks. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 29th November 2023 at 03:50 PM.

29th November 2023, 04:34 PM	#6
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	IMO the carved winged animal on the gandik does not depict a singa but Garuda, see what it is holding in its front legs (snake or turtle?) and compare with the attached image from the Tropenmuseum. Regards Attached Images

28th November 2023, 08:17 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	I understand that this is a tricky one. Thank you, Alan, for your comment! Regarding execution of the figure, with my limited experience I can say, that old examples I have seen mostly have been vertically elongated. This is the first time I see a wing executed in this way, perhaps I have seen these bat-like ears before, but I don't recall where - quite unusual. The cuts in metal at forelegs and turtle (?) are not smooth at all and look comparatively fresh. The very long hind legs are very unusual for an old Balinese Singo. Actually it doesn't look like a Singo to me at all.

29th November 2023, 01:52 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Gustav, what we believe we can see in something depends very much on what we have seen in the past. To me, this singa is 100% Balinese, to you it is not. I don't have any problem with this. Each carver has his own interpretations.

29th November 2023, 06:43 AM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	Alan, that's absolutely true. My experience is limited to museum collections and old blades.

29th November 2023, 06:59 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I have not seen a lot of museum collections that feature carvings of the singa, maybe a few in the National Gallery of Australia, a few in Balinese museums, but I have nearly 60 years worth of visits to Bali, and I have seen more carvings of the singa than I could possibly count. All quality levels, all ages, numerous variations.

29th November 2023, 06:48 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	A depiction of turtle as a base of another figure is not uncommon at all on Gandhik of Balinese Keris, but I have yet to see an authentic Garuda depiction on an old Balinese Keris.