An unusual blade

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you Gavin, I believe I now understand much that previously was not clear to me.

Malaysian sources?

We are using very different understandings & value systems, when this happens it is a bit like a Frenchman, thinking & speaking in French, conversing about Turkey with somebody from Hong Kong who is thinking & speaking in Cantonese.

I probably have nothing of value to contribute further.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thank you Gavin, I believe I now understand much that previously was not clear to me.

Malaysian sources?

We are using very different understandings & value systems, when this happens it is a bit like a Frenchman, thinking & speaking in French, conversing about Turkey with somebody from Hong Kong who is thinking & speaking in Cantonese.

I probably have nothing of value to contribute further.

Thank you Alan,

That is the quandary right there isn't it... the home of Keris and Pamor lore structure in Java, that spread literally everywhere Keris are found and despite this influence, under various modern sub borders, regionally each take on their own cultural aspects diluted from the source, and remain sovereign ... what you describe is, in addition to foundational Java structure, the very overlays of makers origins and place of manufacture, time, migration or isolation, other cultural interactions and influences and with some though, likely many other sub factors.

Any thoughts to add to the Java Keris linked within?

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Gavin, there are a few problems floating around. One major difficulty is that when keris were given as binding instruments to people outside Jawa, those recipients were never given the cultural insight to permit them to understand exactly what it was they were receiving. They got the keris, they did not get the socio-cultural interpretation. So they invented their own. This is a major reason why many Javanese ahli keris will not accept Malay & many other keris as authentic, they are simply "keris-like objects".

In which post is the link to a Jawa keris? I could not find it.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks Alan.

It was this link.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28924

[A. G. Maisey]

I went back through this thread, still cannot find that link. Where is buried? What post number?

Anyway, thoughts on the keris in the link?

Jawa, moderately competent garap, stylistically late Mataram, no dada, no geger, pamor control sloppy, the maker over-reached himself, I think he was trying for one of the ronduru variations, but he failed, gonjo is a replacement made by a different hand.

It is a journeyman blade, commercially acceptable, definitely not made as a pusaka, I cannot with certainty say exactly where it might have originated but it displays some of the inadequacies we are used to seeing in keris from Sleman. Probably second half, 19th century. Certainly no masterpiece, but it would sit nicely in a reference collection.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I went back through this thread, still cannot find that link. Where is buried? What post number?

Anyway, thoughts on the keris in the link?

#20 Alan.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you Gavin.