An unusual blade

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi Alan,

Thank you, I can very much appreciate where you are coming from, and understand exactly what it is you are saying. Pamor is the incorrect term.
I had moved on from the term pamor and called it a feature though.

I rely heavily on learned Malaysian friends and others for some of the finer points on Malay Keris lore, often bouncing thoughts, ideas and quandaries off them whilst I flesh through the myriad of complexities, refer to books, institute collections and elsewhere to gather and or confirm data found and discuss. Often detail is lost in translation and my more my interpretation.
I have been assured though, the feature itself though is Alif and culturally considered Alif.

As a side note, TBH, until last week I had NO idea that the form of the Saras Jarum sepucuk was in the design, representant of lam and Alif. Not pamor I know, but representative of the characters, much like my thoughts on this Java blade's features being that of Arjuna Sasrabahu, the thread however died a natural death as I don't think such design elements are touched upon often enough to be explored to their full potential. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28924

On the snippet shared, which I've called the Alif feature, the blade perhaps needs to be viewed under glass in hand.
I believe it is mechanically planned to open at the three Alif points. Whilst the thicker base and mid sections have what could be considered a post forging additions, there is too much variance in width and depth on close examination, and the Alif to the tip has variance in angles like a subtle 5 luk blade.
The blade is a blend of differential steels, and, not true pamor in the purest sense, more like the bark off an old ironbark in a two dimensional sense. A wootz without the finesse... I liken it to a blend of Besi bari lubang jarum, retak arong, and retak kaki lipan when looking at all features.
It has clear contrasting sections of very tiny proportions running the entire length, and I do see within the sections, being the base, middle and tip that carry the Alif feature or motif, a horizontal and vertical layering of differential overlapping metals, like scales if I had to describe it, whilst the sections between are all vertically running differential metals mostly.

Does this suggest the mechanical layering was by design intended to open in these particular three places during the manufacture process?

On the original blade discussed, the "little wandering brook" seems very purposeful in that it opens a on the medial ridge, a fraction above inner triangle, through to just short of the blades tip. The reverse as noted has nil such features.
The blade design leads me to ask, does the blade itself with the triple "v"s represent an inverted "V", Gunungan, or "8" in Arabic?

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you Gavin, I believe I now understand much that previously was not clear to me.

Malaysian sources?

We are using very different understandings & value systems, when this happens it is a bit like a Frenchman, thinking & speaking in French, conversing about Turkey with somebody from Hong Kong who is thinking & speaking in Cantonese.

I probably have nothing of value to contribute further.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thank you Gavin, I believe I now understand much that previously was not clear to me.

Malaysian sources?

We are using very different understandings & value systems, when this happens it is a bit like a Frenchman, thinking & speaking in French, conversing about Turkey with somebody from Hong Kong who is thinking & speaking in Cantonese.

I probably have nothing of value to contribute further.

Thank you Alan,

That is the quandary right there isn't it... the home of Keris and Pamor lore structure in Java, that spread literally everywhere Keris are found and despite this influence, under various modern sub borders, regionally each take on their own cultural aspects diluted from the source, and remain sovereign ... what you describe is, in addition to foundational Java structure, the very overlays of makers origins and place of manufacture, time, migration or isolation, other cultural interactions and influences and with some though, likely many other sub factors.

Any thoughts to add to the Java Keris linked within?

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Gavin, there are a few problems floating around. One major difficulty is that when keris were given as binding instruments to people outside Jawa, those recipients were never given the cultural insight to permit them to understand exactly what it was they were receiving. They got the keris, they did not get the socio-cultural interpretation. So they invented their own. This is a major reason why many Javanese ahli keris will not accept Malay & many other keris as authentic, they are simply "keris-like objects".

In which post is the link to a Jawa keris? I could not find it.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks Alan.

It was this link.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28924

[A. G. Maisey]

I went back through this thread, still cannot find that link. Where is buried? What post number?

Anyway, thoughts on the keris in the link?

Jawa, moderately competent garap, stylistically late Mataram, no dada, no geger, pamor control sloppy, the maker over-reached himself, I think he was trying for one of the ronduru variations, but he failed, gonjo is a replacement made by a different hand.

It is a journeyman blade, commercially acceptable, definitely not made as a pusaka, I cannot with certainty say exactly where it might have originated but it displays some of the inadequacies we are used to seeing in keris from Sleman. Probably second half, 19th century. Certainly no masterpiece, but it would sit nicely in a reference collection.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I went back through this thread, still cannot find that link. Where is buried? What post number?

Anyway, thoughts on the keris in the link?

#20 Alan.