Bringing back an atypical (?) dagger

Jim McDougall · 3rd November 2023, 05:57 PM

I think you're right Fernando, the blade does seem like a repurposed full length blade, and this was of course a common practice. The only reason I suggested a dirk is that these were the most common 'next size down' versions for the continued use of such blades. Blades were a prized commodity, so to keep them in use in lesser size was an understandable solution for broken ones.

We are familiar with the stories of the Scottish dirks, many had blades which were once the huge two hand claymores, then to the basket hilt, then to the dirk, then to the skean dubh. Naturally such progression was not standard, but just shows the edged weapon graduated scale.

As you note, in rural or remote areas any village smith might produce such an ersatz weapon, and not having a selection of punzones, made the best use of what he had in whatever melange of markings he may have seen on other weapons.
It is too long for a left hand dagger, which were out of use overall by the time of this piece, but the downturn quillons are mindful of the typical appearance. The approximation of the Italian 'twig marks' (Wallace Coll. 1962) adds plausibility to the attempts to establish meaningful motif from other weapons seen , and I can see the linear 'V' marks now, again suggesting same.
Whatever the case, a quaint piece, all the more attractive for the secrets it holds.

fernando · 3rd November 2023, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... It is too long for a left hand dagger, which were out of use overall by the time of this piece, but the downturn quillons are mindful of the typical appearance.

You know left handers can be large, Jim; vide Wallace Collection page 414. In either case, centimeters, not inches

. One other thing i wonder about is the approximate age of this dagger. How would you place it ? At least the blade is rather old stuff

Jim McDougall · 3rd November 2023, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

You know left handers can be large, Jim; vide Wallace Collection page 414. In either case, centimeters, not inches

. One other thing i wonder about is the approximate age of this dagger. How would you place it ? At least the blade is rather old stuff

yes, left handers could be large, and indeed the downward quillon was as popular on them as 'parrying'. So 'historismus' ? late 18th early 19th? In one off things composite with old blade without comparisons, without hands on forensics, who knows?

3rd November 2023, 05:57 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I think you're right Fernando, the blade does seem like a repurposed full length blade, and this was of course a common practice. The only reason I suggested a dirk is that these were the most common 'next size down' versions for the continued use of such blades. Blades were a prized commodity, so to keep them in use in lesser size was an understandable solution for broken ones. We are familiar with the stories of the Scottish dirks, many had blades which were once the huge two hand claymores, then to the basket hilt, then to the dirk, then to the skean dubh. Naturally such progression was not standard, but just shows the edged weapon graduated scale. As you note, in rural or remote areas any village smith might produce such an ersatz weapon, and not having a selection of punzones, made the best use of what he had in whatever melange of markings he may have seen on other weapons. It is too long for a left hand dagger, which were out of use overall by the time of this piece, but the downturn quillons are mindful of the typical appearance. The approximation of the Italian 'twig marks' (Wallace Coll. 1962) adds plausibility to the attempts to establish meaningful motif from other weapons seen , and I can see the linear 'V' marks now, again suggesting same. Whatever the case, a quaint piece, all the more attractive for the secrets it holds.