Identification of an indonesian dagger

doecon · 1st July 2006, 09:34 PM

Henk,

I think you have found yourself a modified european small sword in indonesian dress. The blade style is clearly not indonesian, but probably north european made (imported by the dutch?). It is probably cut (halfway) and resharpened.

The dress is indeed a recent creation, as you can see from the wood (at the beginning of the scabbard) and the metalworks (silver?)

There are plenty old european blades being modified in Indonesia, even in more recent times (1900's), your blade looks indeed a bit older. Try cleaning the blade propperly, maybe you still find more makers marks (Solingen?). My guess is its a mid to late 18th small sword.

Rick · 1st July 2006, 10:03 PM

A Euro pamor blade ?

New to me .

nechesh · 1st July 2006, 10:48 PM

There is little question that the sheath is recent work, though the hilt obviously has some age to it, but it clearly looks like Indonesian work to me. I have never seen a European blade with this type of pamor work.....and why would Mr. Maisey, a man with half a century (sorry Alan, not trying to make you feel old

) of experience and exposure to Indonesian weaponry so clearly identify this weapon by name(s) if he wasn't familar with it? It is obviously something he is familiar with.

Ki Jayamalelo · 2nd July 2006, 02:46 AM

Triangular bayonets were used before 18 cent. Here are a lot of information.http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/blade/armbay.htm#359

Bill M · 2nd July 2006, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

There is little question that the sheath is recent work, though the hilt obviously has some age to it, but it clearly looks like Indonesian work to me. I have never seen a European blade with this type of pamor work.....and why would Mr. Maisey, a man with half a century (sorry Alan, not trying to make you feel old

) of experience and exposure to Indonesian weaponry so clearly identify this weapon by name(s) if he wasn't familar with it? It is obviously something he is familiar with.

I agree with David and Alan. I have a tombak from Alan that is very smiliar in blade construction though the recent dress is more like a command baton. Personally, I trust Alan's description as being correct.

Henk · 2nd July 2006, 09:50 AM

Gentlemen,

I agree also with the members who agree with Alan. Although the remark has been made that it could be a rehilted european bayonet and that it was my first thought to, but the forging pattern doesn't match with a european manufactured bayonet. I've seen them in musea all over Europe but the steel is not forged in the way of mine example. Looking to the forging patterns I'm rather convinced it is a pamor blade.

kronckew · 2nd July 2006, 12:12 PM

saw this one while looking thru http://old.blades.free.fr/other_malay/batakdagger.htm , under 'other edged weapons'

sumatra, batak, cruciform or triangular blade?

Ki Jayamalelo · 3rd July 2006, 07:28 PM

Hello Henk,

you talk about "forging pattern" of your "dagger" but you must think this is an old bayonet of the 18 cent. This has been the first steps producing modern steel like cast steel. I think it was first Benjamin Huntsman who made the first crucible steel in 1742 in England. This dagger could be even older and could be in use by the British Troops in the time (1815) of Governor Raffles. For learning on manufacture of iron and steel the net has many information.

KJ

1st July 2006, 10:03 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	A Euro pamor blade ? New to me . Attached Images

1st July 2006, 09:34 PM	#1
doecon Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 63	Henk, I think you have found yourself a modified european small sword in indonesian dress. The blade style is clearly not indonesian, but probably north european made (imported by the dutch?). It is probably cut (halfway) and resharpened. The dress is indeed a recent creation, as you can see from the wood (at the beginning of the scabbard) and the metalworks (silver?) There are plenty old european blades being modified in Indonesia, even in more recent times (1900's), your blade looks indeed a bit older. Try cleaning the blade propperly, maybe you still find more makers marks (Solingen?). My guess is its a mid to late 18th small sword.

1st July 2006, 10:48 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	There is little question that the sheath is recent work, though the hilt obviously has some age to it, but it clearly looks like Indonesian work to me. I have never seen a European blade with this type of pamor work.....and why would Mr. Maisey, a man with half a century (sorry Alan, not trying to make you feel old ) of experience and exposure to Indonesian weaponry so clearly identify this weapon by name(s) if he wasn't familar with it? It is obviously something he is familiar with.

2nd July 2006, 02:46 AM	#4
Ki Jayamalelo Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 18	Triangular bayonets were used before 18 cent. Here are a lot of information.http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/blade/armbay.htm#359

2nd July 2006, 09:50 AM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Gentlemen, I agree also with the members who agree with Alan. Although the remark has been made that it could be a rehilted european bayonet and that it was my first thought to, but the forging pattern doesn't match with a european manufactured bayonet. I've seen them in musea all over Europe but the steel is not forged in the way of mine example. Looking to the forging patterns I'm rather convinced it is a pamor blade.

2nd July 2006, 12:12 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	saw this one while looking thru http://old.blades.free.fr/other_malay/batakdagger.htm , under 'other edged weapons' sumatra, batak, cruciform or triangular blade?

3rd July 2006, 07:28 PM	#8
Ki Jayamalelo Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 18	Hello Henk, you talk about "forging pattern" of your "dagger" but you must think this is an old bayonet of the 18 cent. This has been the first steps producing modern steel like cast steel. I think it was first Benjamin Huntsman who made the first crucible steel in 1742 in England. This dagger could be even older and could be in use by the British Troops in the time (1815) of Governor Raffles. For learning on manufacture of iron and steel the net has many information. KJ