The Scythe as a weapon.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

Hello Keith, Oh I thought so...and it is always a pleasure to attract a response these days... but what was eye opening was the apparently ancient sharpening tools that all Scythe users are taught... which consists of little wheels and a toffee hammer...and a sharpening stone and which in my view leads us back to the strange sword sharpening system probably used at Shotley Bridge in some form ...I wonder if those little wheels were used on Rapiers or Colchemardes...at Shotley Bridge... The key word is Peening I think.

I thought that system worked best on a softer blade and served to work harden a small section of the edge that then was maintained with a stone till the hardened section was used up? It seems that the temper on a small sword would be too hard?

[Interested Party]

"and it is always a pleasure to attract a response these days... "

I ran across some images a while back of forward curving swords in "Diderot's L'Encyclopedie, Art de L'escrime " that I thought i would share. Two have a forward curving blade complete with a cross section (non-scythelike) in the second plate. The third has some sheathed blades with guards that could indicate a forward curve, but more likely an artistic error.

Secondly, I have attached some pictures of a modern North American scythe to help clarify the issue on tangs. I do not know if Europe used this same system. To me the tang looks easily adaptable with only a few heats to a pole arm. The tang could be lengthened with a scarp weld and reinforced with a long sleave to add strength and some defense against being cut. This combination was used in some early middle age spears to my understanding.

[Peter Hudson]

Dear Interested Party,
Thank you for posting the accurate research illustrating sketches of Scythe blades ...and the other curved shaped blades from Fourbisseur references etc. The tangs on the Scythes are accurate and I believe you are correct in writing that the straightening out process would be simple and fast; converting this agricultural tool to a rudimentary but effective pole arm. This is great support and is good to see from Forum.
Regards, Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

The Scythe as a weapon clearly illustrated by the Artist.. Józef Chełmoński.

Regards, Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

In the late 1600s it is written that included in the weapons were converted farming tools as weapons which were noted amongst others as SCYTHES.

1548: On this day, an inventory was taken of all the munitions
and ordnance of war held within Newcastle. These give us a
fascinating insight into the machinery of sixteenth-century
warfare, as well as Newcastle's often surprising provisions
for conflict. Most of the foot soldiers were equipped with
black bills (a hooked blade on a 5-6 feet long stick) or bows
-there were 2,ooo of each! Others had pikes (4oo), and demilances (250) with smaller numbers of staves. Also held in the
city were weapons made by converting farming equipment
- hedging bills, scythes, sickles and axes.

[drdavid]

Just a minor late addition. In the interesting book Lotharingia by Simon Winder, he mentions in the chapter titled New Management at Hawk Castle that:

" In 1386 it was the turn Leopold III, Duke of Austria, who brought with him a specialised detachment of scythe troops to destroy the harvests as they headed south from Brugg. The Swiss killed him, together with a rich selection of local noblemen and most of his troops (including presumably the ones awkwardly carring only grass-cutting equipment) at the battle of Sempach."

Unfortunately he does not give a linked reference as to the source of this information.

DrD

[Peter Hudson]

On the web the battle of Sempach brings up this detail along with various artworks. Indeed the people carrying mowers were crop cutters and of no use in the battle. Interesting story Thanks.
Peter Hudson.