Strange long rapier

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by cel7

Hi,

I won this cup-hilt rapier at an art and antiques auction this week. It was described as a 19th/20th century example. Judging from the photos of the blade of this rapier, I made an offering on it because the blade seems much older to me. Today I picked it up and finally had the chance to see it in person. Although this type of weapon falls outside my comfort zone, I can only conclude that it is a strange case. The length is the first thing you notice. The total length is 144 centimeters, the length of the blade is 118 centimeters! That's quite long for a rapier. At the very base it is 42mm wide and 7mm thick.
It is decorated with figures and has a fuller of 33 centimeters. The blade is hand forged and there are a few superficial cracks visible. In general the blade is still reasonably sharp. However, the point is round, but it is of course possible that it has been adjusted at some point. So it could have been several centimeters longer.
The cup is also strange. It is hand-forged, the traces of hammering are clearly visible on the inside. It is decorated with chiseled figures. On one side an angel-like figure and an eagle. On the other side something that looks like a coat of arms and an unknown figure. The last two are inlaid with copper wire or something similar, the other two figures still show remnants of the same material under a magnifying glass. It's not really high art, so perhaps this rapier falls under the heading "Munitions grade"!? One of the arms attached to the inside of the cup once came loose and was repaired with a screw and nut. The handle is simple and made of wood. Perhaps it was wrapped with leather or thread in the past.
Who knows what this is? Is it really a 19th century copy or is it somewhat older?

I also posted this rapier on another forum.

That is a 17th c blade !

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ulfberth

That is a 17th c blade !

There you are!!!! We needed ya in on this!!! Totally agree of course, but are these rather crude inscribed markings added later?

Seventeenth century rapier blades were still being shipped to the colonies in 1690s as one I have from a shipwreck off Panama then.

[cel7]

Originally Posted by ulfberth

That is a 17th c blade !

Thanks for your response Ulfbert! Nice to read how people respond from different perspectives. That is of course also what makes a forum like this interesting.