Indonesian sword?

[Sajen]

I've never seen something similar, sorry!

[A. G. Maisey]

I said "similar" Detlef, I did not say "the same".

I reckon that you & a lot of other people too might have seen swords & daggers & knives that bear design characteristics and geometry that would fit into the parameters that this sword of Jeff's carries. This is clearly not a major item, it looks like rural workmanship, and as we move away from major centers of influence the easy to ID characteristics soften & blend with the ideas of people who only have perhaps vague memories or stumbling descriptions to work on.

When looking at older items from SE Asia we need to remember things like the travellers' tales of attempting to cross Sumatera by motorbike during the not so distant past, like into the 1950's. A lot of what we take for granted now was very different not long ago. Even places like Bali were very, very different in the 1960's & 1970's. I had personal experience of both rural Jawa & South Bali long before the tourist flood. I'm reading a book at the moment that was written by a long-time Australian resident of Bali, a famous landscape architect, where he regards 1985 as the year when old Bali changed, I personally regard 1982 as the last good year for Bali, and in 1982 it was a lot different to what it was in 1966-7.

In the markets in Bali now we can see the current interpretations of designs from the past, put a 2023 work-knife side by side with a 1970 work knife and a cursory glance will cause one to form the opinion that these two knives are from different places, but spend the time to look closely at design geometry & we will find the same salient features.

[Jerseyman]

I'm no expert, but this feels Nias to me. I had a quick flick through Albert's lastest book (Traditionele Wapens van Nias - Zonneveld) and Type 10 on page 160 has some similarities - enough to perhaps merit consideration.

[A. G. Maisey]

I think this Nias example does qualify as "similar" , slight differences, not the same, but to my eye certainly similar.

Nias is located in the Province of North Sumatera.

[JeffS]

I really appreciate the discussion. The Nias vibe originally caught my eye and curiosity. However there were hair plugs (since broken off) which is reminiscent of Timor area or Borneo. If I had to choose between the two, Timor. I also understand hair was often added for tourist appeal. The blade quality is decent but overall primitive as noted. The interlocking hilt and scabbard throat is pleasing and well executed.

[Albert]

I don't recognize any similarities with Nias swords.
Although the blade looks similar to the sword in the picture in my book, it is a very common shape found in many areas.
The hilt and sheath provide no clues to Nias.

[A. G. Maisey]

Albert, I have already stated that this sort of thing is out of my area of interest. On the other hand , it is absolutely within your area of interest.

On this matter, you undoubtedly understand more than I do.

Additionally, my guess at "Sumatera" was based upon 3 or perhaps 4 examples of similar swords that were in the hands of finders (runners, wholesale dealers)whom I had met in Solo & Bali, it was separate professional trade dealers who provided the "Sumatera" ID. These people were not natives of either Solo or Bali, but people whose job it was to search S.E. Asia and then sell to retail dealers.

So this present post is not an invitation to enter debate, all I wish to do is to state what I believe I can see. My guess has a qualifier, ie, "similar", meaning not quite the same, but having a broad, overall character that is almost the same.

There are two characteristics of Jeff's sword that are similar to characteristics of the swords that I have seen and that were identified as having a Sumatera origin, those two characteristics are the stylized ancestor head, forward canted pommel, and the blade form. As you yourself have commented, the blade form of both these swords bears similarities to other swords spread across a wide area.

Now, if i compare the picture of the sword of Nias origin that has been reproduced from your book, with Jeff's sword, I can again see a similar stylized ancestor head pommel, & both swords are similar to this characteristic in the swords I have previously seen.

The blades of the Nias sword & Jeff's sword are not really so close in similarity, but this difference could be due to repeated sharpening of Jeff's sword:- the Nias sword is forward weighted, other than this variation, I would consider both blades quite similar.

Another similarity between Jeff's sword, the Nias sword and the swords I have previously seen is scabbard design & construction.

I have no field experience in Sumatera, thus, based upon my own direct experience I am unable to identify origin of any of the swords I have mentioned, but using only visual comparison with photos on a computer screen & the information gained from professionals in this field of antique S.E. Asian edged weapons I do believe I can see sufficient similarity in the mentioned examples to to take a tentative guess at origin.

[JeffS]

Originally Posted by Albert

I don't recognize any similarities with Nias swords.
Although the blade looks similar to the sword in the picture in my book, it is a very common shape found in many areas.
Thank you Albert. The hilt and sheath provide no clues to Nias.

That helps to clear that up. Are hair plugs a clue along with other features for other possible origins? Small tufts from hilt and scabbard foot.