Opinions on reproduction turkish (or persian?) dagger

Ian · 17th September 2023, 02:28 PM

dakary,

Your pictures show that your hand is larger than the grip can presently accommodate for safe use, especially using the "ice pick" grip. The issue is slipping of the hand downwards on to the blade during use. Placing the thumb over the end of the hilt can help a bit but would probably be uncomfortable with the present geometry of the hilt.

If you place pictures of your knife next to some of the antique examples shown here, I think you will see that the cut out area is considerably longer on the antique examples, and the profile is flatter in the cut out areas. The small shoulder so produced provides some stoppage for the hand during use. The maximum depth of the cut out area presently on your knife looks okay, so it would be a matter of making the cut out area longer and flatter. Perhaps the maker of this knife would make those changes for you. After all, it's a custom order!

If you don't plan to use the knife then I would not make any changes to the hilt. The style is approximately correct. As far as the scabbard is concerned, if you wanted to make all the changes you mention it may be easier to simply commission a new scabbard to your revised specifications. Of course, that may be expensive. How much more do you want to spend on this project? A jeweler could likely remove the rings relatively cheaply. After that, things may get more pricey.

dakary · 17th September 2023, 05:43 PM

Thanks Ian for all the help!

The maker has gone completely silent for weeks. I was hoping to send it back for changes. Primarily for the scabbard (I wanted him to remove the rings, add a chape with a ball) and maybe make everything rounder rather than angular on the hilt though now I would also add a larger cutout area with a flatter cutout.

So now this might have to be a project for me, since I have no means to contact the maker other than facebook and whatsapp and I have been trying for weeks. Alternatively, if somebody knows a person I could send this to in order to get this all done professionally, I sure would appreciate that. I'm willing to put a bit of money in this since it wasn't that much to start with.

I do know a jeweller, and maybe she could remove the rings. Should I keep the brass throat though, or just get rid of all that? What about adding a chape?

I was thinking that maybe I should just strip the whole scabbard add a chape (but I'd need to find one...) and then re-cover it with new leather (I'm not crazy about the colour anyway).

It would be much easier to simply remove the rings, keep the brass throat, and make the cutout area bigger and flatter on the hilt.

Richard G · 17th September 2023, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

dakary,

Your pictures show that your hand is larger than the grip can presently accommodate for safe use, especially using the "ice pick" grip. The issue is slipping of the hand downwards on to the blade during use. Placing the thumb over the end of the hilt can help a bit but would probably be uncomfortable with the present geometry of the hilt.

If you place pictures of your knife next to some of the antique examples shown here, I think you will see that the cut out area is considerably longer on the antique examples, and the profile is flatter in the cut out areas. The small shoulder so produced provides some stoppage for the hand during use. The maximum depth of the cut out area presently on your knife looks okay, so it would be a matter of making the cut out area longer and flatter. Perhaps the maker of this knife would make those changes for you. After all, it's a custom order!

If you don't plan to use the knife then I would not make any changes to the hilt. The style is approximately correct. As far as the scabbard is concerned, if you wanted to make all the changes you mention it may be easier to simply commission a new scabbard to your revised specifications. Of course, that may be expensive. How much more do you want to spend on this project? A jeweler could likely remove the rings relatively cheaply. After that, things may get more pricey.

Well! That's to the point!
(no pun intended)

Best wishes
Richard

Ian · 18th September 2023, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G

Well! That's to the point!
(no pun intended)

Best wishes
Richard

dakary · 22nd September 2023, 05:13 PM

Just wanted to give a little update on this. I also reached out to the guys at Bayt Al-Asad, which is a cool channel for middle eastern arms and armour on youtube (they haven't been around for a long time but there is cool stuff on there), and they echoed some of the comments here. I'm going to at least try to do a little bit of a re-profile of the hilt. We'll see about the rest. I'll post pictures if anybody is interested. Thanks again!

17th September 2023, 02:28 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,360	dakary, Your pictures show that your hand is larger than the grip can presently accommodate for safe use, especially using the "ice pick" grip. The issue is slipping of the hand downwards on to the blade during use. Placing the thumb over the end of the hilt can help a bit but would probably be uncomfortable with the present geometry of the hilt. If you place pictures of your knife next to some of the antique examples shown here, I think you will see that the cut out area is considerably longer on the antique examples, and the profile is flatter in the cut out areas. The small shoulder so produced provides some stoppage for the hand during use. The maximum depth of the cut out area presently on your knife looks okay, so it would be a matter of making the cut out area longer and flatter. Perhaps the maker of this knife would make those changes for you. After all, it's a custom order! If you don't plan to use the knife then I would not make any changes to the hilt. The style is approximately correct. As far as the scabbard is concerned, if you wanted to make all the changes you mention it may be easier to simply commission a new scabbard to your revised specifications. Of course, that may be expensive. How much more do you want to spend on this project? A jeweler could likely remove the rings relatively cheaply. After that, things may get more pricey.

17th September 2023, 05:43 PM	#2
dakary Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Canada Posts: 26	Thanks Ian for all the help! The maker has gone completely silent for weeks. I was hoping to send it back for changes. Primarily for the scabbard (I wanted him to remove the rings, add a chape with a ball) and maybe make everything rounder rather than angular on the hilt though now I would also add a larger cutout area with a flatter cutout. So now this might have to be a project for me, since I have no means to contact the maker other than facebook and whatsapp and I have been trying for weeks. Alternatively, if somebody knows a person I could send this to in order to get this all done professionally, I sure would appreciate that. I'm willing to put a bit of money in this since it wasn't that much to start with. I do know a jeweller, and maybe she could remove the rings. Should I keep the brass throat though, or just get rid of all that? What about adding a chape? I was thinking that maybe I should just strip the whole scabbard add a chape (but I'd need to find one...) and then re-cover it with new leather (I'm not crazy about the colour anyway). It would be much easier to simply remove the rings, keep the brass throat, and make the cutout area bigger and flatter on the hilt.

22nd September 2023, 05:13 PM	#5
dakary Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Canada Posts: 26	Just wanted to give a little update on this. I also reached out to the guys at Bayt Al-Asad, which is a cool channel for middle eastern arms and armour on youtube (they haven't been around for a long time but there is cool stuff on there), and they echoed some of the comments here. I'm going to at least try to do a little bit of a re-profile of the hilt. We'll see about the rest. I'll post pictures if anybody is interested. Thanks again!