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#1 | |
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Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 702
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![]() Kindly requested to provide me the characteristics of your determination as I am most eager to learn from your wisdom and also the literature where I can find this to add that / enlarge my small collection of books... |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,614
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Ethnic attributions can be tricky and loaded with potential controversy. Geographically, I have seen a mention of "солунски ножове" (Thessalonica knives) in Bulgarian literature, and seems to refer to small knives with bone hilts with the solar decorative motive, like the second one from top to bottom on your stand.
Yours came from Herzegovina, which may mean that it was made there or it may mean that it simply ended up there at one point after being made elsewhere. I cannot claim anything conclusively, but I believe Osobist may be on to something in this case. |
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#3 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 94
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#4 | |
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Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 702
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( except the fancy decorated ones, specially golden and belonging to the wealthy aga's or aristocrats and rich landowners). In the Balkans ( Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia and Montengro) the last 10 years quite interesting publications and books have been published ! The hilt or grip looks like Balkan and can be seen on a lot of bichaqs but sadly seems to miss its ferrule like you can see here : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=bichaq or in my collection http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ion#post283727 But as for the blade, narrow and long, I can not say for sure as I have not seen this type that often; mostly at auction houses with fancy or strange description of origin...sometimes even as an African dagger :-) being doubtful, I never touched them... The type of scabbard I have seen some similar ones in Montenegrin ones but also Greek cold arms but that is a region I have limited knowledge on. This specific one; although a nice scabbard, the knife looks incomplete to me (ferrule f.i.) , and hence I would not have it in my collection, no disrespect nor offence intended at all... Last edited by gp; 13th September 2023 at 02:04 PM. |
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#5 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 94
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Regarding my knife...don't worry at all, you're not the only one who can't identify it. I have an affinity for mysterious objects ![]() ![]() |
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#6 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
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Osobist,
Your last item is very interesting. I'm not experienced at all in the subtleties of edged weapons from the Balkans and neighboring areas. However, I do like cross-cultural pieces and this particular item seems to be full of multicultural influences. The very nice sheath looks Greek to me, the hilt from Sarajevo or thereabouts, and the much sharpened blade from somewhere in the Mediterranean region. I don't know whether the sheath has always been with the knife but the hilt and blade seem to have had a long term relationship. What are your thoughts on your knife? |
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 94
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and acquired experience in the development of various types of items satisfying the current market needs. My humble opinion about this particular knife is that it was made in the Bay of Kotor/Boka kotorska/Bocche di Cattaro.I'm guessing its current form was re-struck after the hilt was repaired in a workshop somewhere in the northwest. I'm guessing its current appearance was changed after the handle was repaired in a workshop somewhere in the northwest by a craftsman working in the Bosnian style.This is how it should look without repair ![]() |
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#8 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
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Thanks Osobist for the detailed response.
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#9 | |
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Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 702
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first the type op Montenegrin dagger you have shown: - dates back to the late 18th century , something between 1780 - 1840 - is around the time the Boka / bay was Italian or Southern Dalmatian Habsburg; so no Ottoman Empire... - no real wanderings took place of weapen or bladesmiths as they either were not allowed to or lacked the finances nor the need. Specially in the Boka. Still weapons do wander and yes, marriages take place indeed, but (speaking from experience / being a visitor to the Boka and Montenegro since the 1980ies) no selfrespecting Montenegrin (then and now) in his right mind would allow this piece of "sacrilage" or cultural barbarism to happen to match the very nice scabbard with such a beautiful dagger into the product you have shown as a test to me....☻☻☻ And even if, if the dagger would have ended up in Ottoman territory; i.e. BiH or Sanzak...again these folks were not stupid to do something silly like that: such a piece of beauty would have found its way to some one with the means to have it restored to either its orginal beauty or to a similar high level Ottoman piece but not a simple bichaq type hilt like you correctly stated I have quite a few... Also looking at the blade: no remnants / signs of a good bolster, which should have been there... To make it more confussing: in the Ottoman Empire there were a couple of atypical Ottoman ( non curved but straight) blades made as you can see in some examples I took from publications of the Museum of Banja Luka, a paper of a Romanian historical scolar with Dr. title and a Russian publication I was made aware of by a respected forum member . All between 2006 and 2014. Yes I do agree it is difficult to find an origin but looking at the data, I think a marriage between a scabbard and something someone made but the latter not connected to the Montenegrin one I think... Than again..I could be wrong... ![]() Last edited by gp; 18th September 2023 at 08:22 PM. |
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