Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 18th July 2023, 05:06 PM   #1
mgolab
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 64
Default

Thank you David.

Interesting, trench axe did not cross my mind. Given the geographic location where the piece was found, PA/NY border in Tioga County, I wonder if it is revolutionary war period.

The area where the axe was found served as a staging point for the infamous "Sullivan's Expedition" in 1779.
mgolab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2023, 12:54 AM   #2
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,156
Default

With many of these types, it is sometimes difficult to positively say whether or not a spike ax is a true tomahawk versus a pick ax/trench ax/fire ax. Likewise, boarding axes, which resemble tomahawks, are frequently faked and mis-identified as well. That being said, I think your two axes are the real deal, but this is just my view.

The smaller ax with the long spike appears to me to be early 19th century, of the pattern later used for roofing hatchets. I base the time factor on this single bearded/eared head shape. It is blacksmith-made (not trip hammered) with forging flaws, steel bit and the 4 sided spike again of that form dating to late 18th/early 19th. The squared notch is possibly a beaver trap chain pull as used by the fur traders. Smaller hatchets like this would have been popular not just with natives, but fur traders, frontiersmen, scouts, soldiers, etc. There is a chance the notch was also channel-cut later in the axe's working life...

The second axe looks to be right, but again, I'll hold off for others more experienced in this area than me. It looks authentic, but there are so many fakes these days-

Last edited by M ELEY; 19th July 2023 at 03:45 AM.
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2023, 07:44 PM   #3
mgolab
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 64
Default

thank you very much for the information. I appreciate it.
mgolab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2023, 11:40 PM   #4
MitsuWa.
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 22
Default

That pink stuff you saw on the ax head was bondo, polyester autobody filler. The hardware store hammer handle that is mounted on it is not original.
MitsuWa. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2023, 01:40 AM   #5
mgolab
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 64
Default

Thank you.

I am not sure of handle's age. Certainly not the original but I question whether it is recent. First, it is white ash. Usually you see hickory handles nowadays, unless custom.

Also, I have attached a picture of the top. Seems somewhat earlier fitted in to me.
Attached Images
 
mgolab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2023, 08:08 PM   #6
BBJW
Member
 
BBJW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Idaho, USA
Posts: 228
Default

Many 'spike' tomahawks are were used on sailing ships. The spike being used to pull away downed rigging.-- bbjw
BBJW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2023, 09:41 PM   #7
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,156
Default

I just wrote a long and convoluted response to this and it vanished before my eyes, so here's the short of it...

Despite the bondo, it doesn't mean this is a fake. The axe appears hand-forged, perhaps early 19th. Seems too early for mining or trench axe, not practical as a tool axe. The 'eye' is of the early pattern oval and slightly thinner on one side, indicating hand-wrought. The spike like this one found on some known native specimens (Iroquois for one). The hafts on both these axes replaced, but this is common and expected. The head pattern is post 1800 and does fall into the shape of later tool axes, but very few of those were blacksmith made. The squared slot on yours very possibly a beaver trap chain pull to prevent having to plunge one's arm into icy rivers again and again (and possibly getting bit by a muskrat or beaver).

Check out the following-
Hartzler's 'Trade Axes and Tomawks'
Neumann's 'Swords and Blades of the American Revolution'
the Tatca website- https://tatcalite.tripod.com/index.htm

As I stated earlier, there are a lot of fakes, so an expert would need to actually handle your 'hawks' to be sure. Check out the trade tomahawl site's list of mimics and fakes. It's enough to scare you away from collecting these!

Last edited by M ELEY; 20th July 2023 at 10:40 PM.
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.