Little rapier with cut hilt - 18th century?

Radboud · 25th June 2023, 04:00 AM

Interesting sword.

My observations:
As you say, the blade is likely late 18th Century. My money would be that it is from a French officer's spadroon going by the decorations. Being a backsword, this is not the type of blade that belongs on a cuphilt rapier or smallsword.

I'm concerned that only the tip of the ricasso decoration shows; normally, this would be part of a larger panel, which might be a sign that this has been cut back. But otherwise, the ricasso looks fine... so I don't know.

The cup is of much more modern production, likely 20th cent. I've not seen the use of a brass disk like that before, and the use of solder like that is also very irregular. The wire looks too recent as well. The quillons look like they were made of bar stock and welded on, the same for the guard. Finally, that metal tube covering the ricasso between the cup and crossguard is just wrong.

Fuzzysnuggleduck · 25th June 2023, 07:29 AM

Thanks Radboud!
That the riccaso is missing a bit, and maybe shortened, was something I considered since part of the engraving seems to look like it is cut off or could originally go below the edge of the cup.

A recycled blade, onto a more recent cup & hilt makes sense. The solder also felt like a repair and a bit sloppy. So a more recent composite actually would fit the evidence better.
(BTW, I am in NZ as well.)

Numerals, cuts in steel.
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3 dots, and another view of the 'wrong' looking tube between handle and cup.
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Radboud · 25th June 2023, 10:50 AM

I don’t know what the three dots mean I’m sorry, but that swirl on the base of the spine looks like the top of a ‘Solingen Rose’ a mark commonly found on blades from Solingen. I don’t know what the numerals mean on the spine, but it is something I have seen on French swords before. My An XI troopers sabre has similar marks as well.

Where in NZ are you based? There’s a show next Sunday at Alexandra Park, in Auckland where I’ll be showing my 1796 Patterns. Stop by and say hi if you can.

Fuzzysnuggleduck · 26th June 2023, 02:25 AM

Thanks again! I think we have the 'rapier' figured out. I can match the engraving style, the top of the missing panel/cut away, and the fuller and blade type to French officer's swords online.
I am in Hamilton, and will plan to come up to the Arms Fair. Hope to be there, and will look out for any displays of swords.

25th June 2023, 07:29 AM	#2
Fuzzysnuggleduck Member Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 4	Thanks Radboud! That the riccaso is missing a bit, and maybe shortened, was something I considered since part of the engraving seems to look like it is cut off or could originally go below the edge of the cup. A recycled blade, onto a more recent cup & hilt makes sense. The solder also felt like a repair and a bit sloppy. So a more recent composite actually would fit the evidence better. (BTW, I am in NZ as well.) Numerals, cuts in steel. 3 dots, and another view of the 'wrong' looking tube between handle and cup.

25th June 2023, 04:00 AM	#1
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 276	Interesting sword. My observations: As you say, the blade is likely late 18th Century. My money would be that it is from a French officer's spadroon going by the decorations. Being a backsword, this is not the type of blade that belongs on a cuphilt rapier or smallsword. I'm concerned that only the tip of the ricasso decoration shows; normally, this would be part of a larger panel, which might be a sign that this has been cut back. But otherwise, the ricasso looks fine... so I don't know. The cup is of much more modern production, likely 20th cent. I've not seen the use of a brass disk like that before, and the use of solder like that is also very irregular. The wire looks too recent as well. The quillons look like they were made of bar stock and welded on, the same for the guard. Finally, that metal tube covering the ricasso between the cup and crossguard is just wrong.

25th June 2023, 10:50 AM	#3
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 276	I don’t know what the three dots mean I’m sorry, but that swirl on the base of the spine looks like the top of a ‘Solingen Rose’ a mark commonly found on blades from Solingen. I don’t know what the numerals mean on the spine, but it is something I have seen on French swords before. My An XI troopers sabre has similar marks as well. Where in NZ are you based? There’s a show next Sunday at Alexandra Park, in Auckland where I’ll be showing my 1796 Patterns. Stop by and say hi if you can.

26th June 2023, 02:25 AM	#4
Fuzzysnuggleduck Member Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 4	Thanks again! I think we have the 'rapier' figured out. I can match the engraving style, the top of the missing panel/cut away, and the fuller and blade type to French officer's swords online. I am in Hamilton, and will plan to come up to the Arms Fair. Hope to be there, and will look out for any displays of swords.