my last keris

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2023, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

dapur Maeso Slurung / Nabrang

IMHO it is a rare Chengkrong Pandawa keris.

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2023, 04:01 AM

Last Thursday (01/06/2023) I went to the Radyapustaka Museum in Solo. In a museum showcase, I saw a keris quite similar to Marco's keris – not precisely similar, but it had three curves or luks. It is a Cengkrong Jangkung, if Marco's keris luk five, it is a Cengkrong Pandawa.

The Cengkrong Jangkung keris is on the far right in the showcase in front of me.

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2023, 04:14 AM

The cengkrong dhapur on the Javanese keris, is the only dhapur that is a panjingan (omah-omahan, keris hole) in its special position. Unlike the other dhapur kerises. Keris hole in its sheath, is reversed. The front becomes the back, the back becomes the front of the sheath.

As photographed (01/06/2023)in this keris belonging to the Radyapustaka Museum in Solo, Central Java, Indonesia...

A. G. Maisey · 2nd June 2023, 04:32 AM

Thanks for your input Ganja.

Radyapustaka sounds pretty authoritative, but it still gets down to the opinion of one man.

Here is re-posting of an earlier post of mine:-

The SKA pakem cengkrong lacks kruwingan, whilst the SKA pakem dhuwung does have kruwingan, also a cengkrong does not need to have the back edge sharp, whereas the dhuwung does.

The subject keris has a sharp back edge and kruwingan.

Using the SKA pakem it cannot be anything other than dhuwung luk lima, but I have no idea at all what it might have been called at the time & in the place where it was made.

I do not think this is a Central Javanese keris, more likely East Jawa, and over there it could have a half dozen other names.

Actually, if we did allow that it was a cengkrong with 5 luk, in spite of the fact that it does not quite satisfy the requirements for a cengkrong, it would then be a Pandowo Cengkrong, not a Cengkrong Luk Lima.

I don't think I have a firm opinion in respect of dhapur, but its nice to see another genuine old example.

However, it is difficult to see detail of your example , I also have some photos of this display case, but my pics are maybe more indistinct than yours.

For me, it gets down to only one thing:- what does the SKA pakem say?

We can have 50 people look at the same thing and all come up with maybe 50 or more different opinions, it is always nice to be able to back up an opinion with some sort of authority.

Marco's keris (post #17) shows a back that in English we would call a pipe back, in the keris this pipe back blade is found in dhapur dhuwung, it is not found in any other dhapur.

Does the Radyapustaka example have a pipe back blade?

If so it is similar to Marco's blade and according to the SKA pakem it qualifies as dhuwung.

If it does not have a pipe back blade then it is not similar to Marco's keris and cengkrong might well apply, in which case the reverse mount is correct in the RP example, the comment in the SKA pakem is "--- ganja kuwalik".

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2023, 05:20 AM

I tried to open the book "Dhapur" (Damartaji, 1998) which was copied from the original manuscript "Buku Gambar Dhapuripun Dhuwung saha Waos" (Picture Book of Keris and Tombak Dhapurs, 1920) which was in the hands of the late Kanjeng Gusti Prince Harya (KGPH) Hadiwijaya son King of Surakarta Paku Buwana X (1866-1937).

The book contains drawings of the Surakarta version of the Javanese keris (SKA) collected from palace manuscripts by Gusti Hadiwijaya, the son of the Surakarta king. I tried to open an image of Cengkrong's dhapur lined up with Cundrik's dhapur. And Cundrik Pandawa in the form of Cundrik's dhapur with five curves.

The picture is as follows:

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2023, 05:27 AM

The source of the book used by Gusti Hadiwijaya was the palace (kraton) manuscripts made by Raden Tumenggung Sastradiningrat. And Gusti Hadiwijaya later copied it in his book which became the reference for examples of dhapur kerises among the Surakarta Palace and keris fans. Hadiwijaya's book was published in 1920 in Surakarta.

In 1998 the Javanese script was Latinized by the Damartaji keris fan association (Tosan Aji Fans Brotherhood).

ganjawulung · 2nd June 2023, 05:54 AM

The Dhuwung dhapur is different from the Cengkrong dhapur. Cengkrong's gandhik is at the back, while the gandhik of Dhuwung dhapur is normal at the front position.

I took an example of the picture in the same book from Gusti Hadiwijaya, son of the King of Surakarta Paku Buwana X

2nd June 2023, 04:01 AM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	CENGKRONG PANDAWA IN RADYAPUSTAKA SOLO Last Thursday (01/06/2023) I went to the Radyapustaka Museum in Solo. In a museum showcase, I saw a keris quite similar to Marco's keris – not precisely similar, but it had three curves or luks. It is a Cengkrong Jangkung, if Marco's keris luk five, it is a Cengkrong Pandawa. The Cengkrong Jangkung keris is on the far right in the showcase in front of me. Attached Images Last edited by ganjawulung; 2nd June 2023 at 04:15 AM.

2nd June 2023, 04:14 AM	#3
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	EXCEPTIONAL PANJINGAN The cengkrong dhapur on the Javanese keris, is the only dhapur that is a panjingan (omah-omahan, keris hole) in its special position. Unlike the other dhapur kerises. Keris hole in its sheath, is reversed. The front becomes the back, the back becomes the front of the sheath. As photographed (01/06/2023)in this keris belonging to the Radyapustaka Museum in Solo, Central Java, Indonesia... Attached Images

2nd June 2023, 04:32 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,988	Thanks for your input Ganja. Radyapustaka sounds pretty authoritative, but it still gets down to the opinion of one man. Here is re-posting of an earlier post of mine:- The SKA pakem cengkrong lacks kruwingan, whilst the SKA pakem dhuwung does have kruwingan, also a cengkrong does not need to have the back edge sharp, whereas the dhuwung does. The subject keris has a sharp back edge and kruwingan. Using the SKA pakem it cannot be anything other than dhuwung luk lima, but I have no idea at all what it might have been called at the time & in the place where it was made. I do not think this is a Central Javanese keris, more likely East Jawa, and over there it could have a half dozen other names. Actually, if we did allow that it was a cengkrong with 5 luk, in spite of the fact that it does not quite satisfy the requirements for a cengkrong, it would then be a Pandowo Cengkrong, not a Cengkrong Luk Lima. I don't think I have a firm opinion in respect of dhapur, but its nice to see another genuine old example. However, it is difficult to see detail of your example , I also have some photos of this display case, but my pics are maybe more indistinct than yours. For me, it gets down to only one thing:- what does the SKA pakem say? We can have 50 people look at the same thing and all come up with maybe 50 or more different opinions, it is always nice to be able to back up an opinion with some sort of authority. Marco's keris (post #17) shows a back that in English we would call a pipe back, in the keris this pipe back blade is found in dhapur dhuwung, it is not found in any other dhapur. Does the Radyapustaka example have a pipe back blade? If so it is similar to Marco's blade and according to the SKA pakem it qualifies as dhuwung. If it does not have a pipe back blade then it is not similar to Marco's keris and cengkrong might well apply, in which case the reverse mount is correct in the RP example, the comment in the SKA pakem is "--- ganja kuwalik". Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 2nd June 2023 at 04:46 AM.

2nd June 2023, 05:20 AM	#5
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	CENGKRONG AND CUNDRIK DAPURS I tried to open the book "Dhapur" (Damartaji, 1998) which was copied from the original manuscript "Buku Gambar Dhapuripun Dhuwung saha Waos" (Picture Book of Keris and Tombak Dhapurs, 1920) which was in the hands of the late Kanjeng Gusti Prince Harya (KGPH) Hadiwijaya son King of Surakarta Paku Buwana X (1866-1937). The book contains drawings of the Surakarta version of the Javanese keris (SKA) collected from palace manuscripts by Gusti Hadiwijaya, the son of the Surakarta king. I tried to open an image of Cengkrong's dhapur lined up with Cundrik's dhapur. And Cundrik Pandawa in the form of Cundrik's dhapur with five curves. The picture is as follows: Attached Images Last edited by ganjawulung; 2nd June 2023 at 11:57 AM.

2nd June 2023, 05:27 AM	#6
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	KGPH HADIWIJAYA The source of the book used by Gusti Hadiwijaya was the palace (kraton) manuscripts made by Raden Tumenggung Sastradiningrat. And Gusti Hadiwijaya later copied it in his book which became the reference for examples of dhapur kerises among the Surakarta Palace and keris fans. Hadiwijaya's book was published in 1920 in Surakarta. In 1998 the Javanese script was Latinized by the Damartaji keris fan association (Tosan Aji Fans Brotherhood). Attached Images

2nd June 2023, 05:54 AM	#7
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	DHAPUR DHUWUNG The Dhuwung dhapur is different from the Cengkrong dhapur. Cengkrong's gandhik is at the back, while the gandhik of Dhuwung dhapur is normal at the front position. I took an example of the picture in the same book from Gusti Hadiwijaya, son of the King of Surakarta Paku Buwana X Attached Images