Persian or Ottoman Lance ?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by mahratt

... The website of the Metropolitan Museum of Art often comes across errors ...

Like many (not to say all ) others ?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by fernando

Like many (not to say all ) others ?

Undoubtedly

[ariel]

Originally Posted by fernando

Like many (not to say all ) others ?

Originally Posted by fernando

Like many (not to say all ) others ?

It is inevitable for all massive collections: pure statistics tells us that the
" 100% true hit" in virtually any population is confined to 95% of the data/items ( 2SD from the mean). Only collections dealing with 100% attributable, dated and marked items may look "better". Small museums and poor/uneducated staff are the two main " kisses of death".

Metropolitan Museum is meticulous, with specialist staff, widely published and thoroughly edited books is likely to be in the upper 1% of all museums. Morosini's collection was assembled in the very late 19- very early 20 centuries. At that time there were no internet auctions, and all acqusitions were conducted through a small number of highly reputable dealers just like the Stone's one. Thus, the number of mistakes was brought to a minimum. There were mistakes, most of which were corrected by subsequent research and claiming that the attribution of Met's items is " often" wrong is mistaken.

[Gavin Nugent]

I'll be honest David, I don't know, but in the spirit of looking at it objectively, I would say India when purely considering the manufacture aspects rather than its shape and decoration.

Then a think to myself are the design elements Turkic, similar to this axe I once thought was Turkic, loosely drawn from Henry Landsell materials... but the years have shown me more than one clearly Indian example of this Tabar's head shape, that then points me to the Sindh and Gujarat based on the decorative embellishments found those examples... so that bought me back to India...but as a offshoot, there are Turkish War hammers with these decorative motifs on them too, not an Indian weapon... they were decorated like the image presented and of the same assembly features... perhaps Indian produced and sold those as a regional export to be decorated elsewhere... pondering the ponderous there... so back to the spearhead...

Given the comparative examples, albeit some in a league of their own, and aspects I see, I'd be confident in suggesting India as a point of origin with all aspects considered.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

I'll be honest David, I don't know, but in the spirit of looking at it objectively, I would say India when purely considering the manufacture aspects rather than its shape and decoration.

Then a think to myself are the design elements Turkic, similar to this axe I once thought was Turkic, loosely drawn from Henry Landsell materials... but the years have shown me more than one clearly Indian example of this Tabar's head shape, that then points me to the Sindh and Gujarat based on the decorative embellishments found those examples... so that bought me back to India...but as a offshoot, there are Turkish War hammers with these decorative motifs on them too, not an Indian weapon... they were decorated like the image presented and of the same assembly features... perhaps Indian produced and sold those as a regional export to be decorated elsewhere... pondering the ponderous there... so back to the spearhead...

Given the comparative examples, albeit some in a league of their own, and aspects I see, I'd be confident in suggesting India as a point of origin with all aspects considered.

Gavin, thanks for a very interesting analysis! I, too, like you, remembered similar decor Turkish War hammers. But the overall design of the spear head is really more like the Indo-Persian region

[fernando]

Thead closed until further notice.

[Ian]

This thread is now open again. You will note that some posts have been deleted for off topic comments and argumentative/sarcastic/abusive behavior. The two protagonists, long term contributors here, have exhausted the patience of all moderators and staff. Despite our attempts to moderate their interactions, they could not refrain from attacking each other. They will no longer be posting here.

[Battara]

I agree with the Indo-Persian origins.

[DavidFriedman]

Sorry, I missed the conflicting posts. I had no intention of initiating a post that would create any contention.

Originally Posted by Ian

This thread is now open again. You will note that some posts have been deleted for off topic comments and argumentative/sarcastic/abusive behavior. The two protagonists, long term contributors here, have exhausted the patience of all moderators and staff. Despite our attempts to moderate their interactions, they could not refrain from attacking each other. They will no longer be posting here.