Inlaid Kris and Punang

nechesh · 24th June 2006, 12:26 AM

You know, the more i look at the pics of the kris the more it looks like there just might be a really well fitted seperate gangya on it, in which case i might change my age assessment. Is it a seperate piece? I have one that for years i thought was one piece until i etched it one day and found the tight seem.

cannonmn · 24th June 2006, 12:50 AM

No the steel blade seems to be all one piece. The serpent thing was carved into the basic blade. I don't see any way it could be a separate piece when I look at both ends of the serpent. The ends simply merge smoothly into the steel of the blade with no change in appearance.

Anyway, when I looked at it all under magnification, it sure looked antique to me. There are so many different metals and materials in it, the handle, etc, and they all look like they should, to me anyway, if antique.

Rick · 24th June 2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannonmn

No the steel blade seems to be all one piece. The serpent thing was carved into the basic blade. I don't see any way it could be a separate piece when I look at both ends of the serpent. The ends simply merge smoothly into the steel of the blade with no change in appearance.

Anyway, when I looked at it all under magnification, it sure looked antique to me. There are so many different metals and materials in it, the handle, etc, and they all look like they should, to me anyway, if antique.

Hi cannonmn ,

What nechesh meant by a separate piece was this area pictured below .

Wayan · 24th June 2006, 01:10 AM

This kris from the Philippines is quite different from its Indonesian counterparts. Of immediate note is that the blade maintains the same width the entire length of the blade. As the kris is predominately a stabbing weapon, that seems rather impractical and the unnecessary weight would add additional strain on the tang. Aesthetically, the handle almost appears ridiculous in concert with its blade, or way out of balance. Another noticeable difference is that there does not seem to be any pamor worked into the iron. A final observation is that the formation of the luk is not like the smooth flow seen in Indonesian kris, in fact the top of the curves almost appear to be pointed. .

This is the first I have seen a kris from the Philippines, so these are just my initial observations, and they are not intended to “knock” or criticize. Thanks for posting those photos!

cannonmn · 24th June 2006, 02:19 AM

I'm pretty sure that in the Philippines, the kris, at least of the type I posted, was used as a side-cutting or slashing weapon primarily. The blades are rather thick in the middle, and heavy, and have lots of momentum if they are swung. The US Army found this out to their dismay ca. 1900. It is pretty well documented that the Moros armed with these would swing them to strike the soldiers between the neck and shoulder, and many of those deep wounds were mortal. The Filipino, or Moro kris would not be too efficient for stabbing due to relatively blunt end, but the blade was sharpened all around so they could do that also.

MABAGANI · 24th June 2006, 03:37 AM

try stabbing with a rounded or pointed sharp moro kris straight or wavy, they are effective for cutting or thrusting...

nechesh · 24th June 2006, 05:28 AM

Wayan, as has been pointeed out to you, kris from the Philippines, while related to the Indonesian keris, are quite a dfferent animal. I can assure you that in full on combat it is a far superior weapon to it's smaller stabbing cousin. Primarily a slashing and chopping weapon, it is generally razor sharp and can also stab as Mabagani points (no pun intended

) out. They are usually rather well balanced blades as well. In hand i think perhaps your thoughts on the proportions and weigh might change.
Cannonmn, it has been generally accepted that kris without a seperate gangya are usually post-1930s blades. There are, of course, exceptions to that. A 1930s blade would be cosidered antique by many, being over 70 years old. I'm still not convinced yet that yours is quite that old. The luks of the blade seem somewhat pointed, another indicator of a younger blade. Still it appears to be a well made blade, not something made for the export market. Are the bands on the sheathy aluminium?
Your gunong appears to be missing it's guard. Still a nice example. I like the inlay.

Spunjer · 24th June 2006, 06:17 AM

cannonmn,

here's a kris similar to yours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

you didn't mentioned the size, but i bet the blade is around 27" no?

wayan,

think of the moro kris as an indo keris on some serious steroids and growth hormones

cannonmn · 24th June 2006, 10:38 AM

Yes the measurements of mine are same as Snyder's on Ebay (btw he is longtime acquaintence.) So mine is 27 in. tip to center of handle, and guard is 6.5 in. wide. You'd almost think his and mine were by the same maker? Thanks for finding another like mine.

The two whitish bands shown on the scabbard I have are actually masking tape put on in recent years to keep scabbard from falling apart. A very thin brass band remains alongside one of the tape windings.

24th June 2006, 12:50 AM	#2
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	Is it a seperate piece? No the steel blade seems to be all one piece. The serpent thing was carved into the basic blade. I don't see any way it could be a separate piece when I look at both ends of the serpent. The ends simply merge smoothly into the steel of the blade with no change in appearance. Anyway, when I looked at it all under magnification, it sure looked antique to me. There are so many different metals and materials in it, the handle, etc, and they all look like they should, to me anyway, if antique.

24th June 2006, 02:19 AM	#5
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	Hi Wayan. I'm pretty sure that in the Philippines, the kris, at least of the type I posted, was used as a side-cutting or slashing weapon primarily. The blades are rather thick in the middle, and heavy, and have lots of momentum if they are swung. The US Army found this out to their dismay ca. 1900. It is pretty well documented that the Moros armed with these would swing them to strike the soldiers between the neck and shoulder, and many of those deep wounds were mortal. The Filipino, or Moro kris would not be too efficient for stabbing due to relatively blunt end, but the blade was sharpened all around so they could do that also.

24th June 2006, 10:38 AM	#9
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	for spunger Yes the measurements of mine are same as Snyder's on Ebay (btw he is longtime acquaintence.) So mine is 27 in. tip to center of handle, and guard is 6.5 in. wide. You'd almost think his and mine were by the same maker? Thanks for finding another like mine. The two whitish bands shown on the scabbard I have are actually masking tape put on in recent years to keep scabbard from falling apart. A very thin brass band remains alongside one of the tape windings.

24th June 2006, 12:26 AM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	You know, the more i look at the pics of the kris the more it looks like there just might be a really well fitted seperate gangya on it, in which case i might change my age assessment. Is it a seperate piece? I have one that for years i thought was one piece until i etched it one day and found the tight seem.

24th June 2006, 01:10 AM	#4
Wayan Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ubud, Bali, Indonesia Posts: 16	This kris from the Philippines is quite different from its Indonesian counterparts. Of immediate note is that the blade maintains the same width the entire length of the blade. As the kris is predominately a stabbing weapon, that seems rather impractical and the unnecessary weight would add additional strain on the tang. Aesthetically, the handle almost appears ridiculous in concert with its blade, or way out of balance. Another noticeable difference is that there does not seem to be any pamor worked into the iron. A final observation is that the formation of the luk is not like the smooth flow seen in Indonesian kris, in fact the top of the curves almost appear to be pointed. . This is the first I have seen a kris from the Philippines, so these are just my initial observations, and they are not intended to “knock” or criticize. Thanks for posting those photos!

24th June 2006, 03:37 AM	#6
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	try stabbing with a rounded or pointed sharp moro kris straight or wavy, they are effective for cutting or thrusting...

24th June 2006, 05:28 AM	#7
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Wayan, as has been pointeed out to you, kris from the Philippines, while related to the Indonesian keris, are quite a dfferent animal. I can assure you that in full on combat it is a far superior weapon to it's smaller stabbing cousin. Primarily a slashing and chopping weapon, it is generally razor sharp and can also stab as Mabagani points (no pun intended ) out. They are usually rather well balanced blades as well. In hand i think perhaps your thoughts on the proportions and weigh might change. Cannonmn, it has been generally accepted that kris without a seperate gangya are usually post-1930s blades. There are, of course, exceptions to that. A 1930s blade would be cosidered antique by many, being over 70 years old. I'm still not convinced yet that yours is quite that old. The luks of the blade seem somewhat pointed, another indicator of a younger blade. Still it appears to be a well made blade, not something made for the export market. Are the bands on the sheathy aluminium? Your gunong appears to be missing it's guard. Still a nice example. I like the inlay.

24th June 2006, 06:17 AM	#8
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	cannonmn, here's a kris similar to yours: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 you didn't mentioned the size, but i bet the blade is around 27" no? wayan, think of the moro kris as an indo keris on some serious steroids and growth hormones