Another one I've had for 20+ years

David · 30th January 2023, 04:52 PM

Thanks for the added photo Ian. Though it is indeed possible that this sheath once belong to a smaller blade and was sized up for this one i would say it is unlikely. The sheath is obviously newer than the blade and appears to have been made specifically for it. I don't think it is at all unusual to find a Madurese blade in Javanese dress or vice versa. It is a nice keris over all.

Ian · 31st January 2023, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for the added photo Ian. Though it is indeed possible that this sheath once belong to a smaller blade and was sized up for this one i would say it is unlikely. ...

Thanks for that caveat David. Yes, it might have been sized up.

Ian · 31st January 2023, 01:45 AM

I dug out the old sales docket for this keris in my files. It was purchased in 1999, and the docket simply says "Madurese keris and wooden sheath" and quotes information from the tag pasted to the back of the sheath.

David · 31st January 2023, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Thanks for that caveat David. Yes, it might have been sized up.

LOL! Anything is possible Ian, but i was clearly inferring that i didn't think that was the case.

jagabuwana · 31st January 2023, 10:04 AM

Thank you for the additional photo, Ian.
I believe that this is a pretty clear cut example of a Tuban gonjo.

A. G. Maisey · 31st January 2023, 10:06 PM

Yes Jaga, stylistically this gonjo is a good example of a Tuban keris that retains the original gonjo form.

This form is often presented as nguceng mati (dead fish) which from above is straight sided with the buntut urang being sharply pointed, this sharp point has been caused by erosion over time, the original shape is still straight sided, but the buntut urang is cutoff short, resulting in a gonjo shorter than most other gonjos, and a very narrow buntut urang.

From the side, a Tuban gonjo should be rather thick, and the gonjo on this keris is rather thick.

Where this keris appears to fail a Tuban classification is in the nature of the pamor, I say "appears" because I cannot feel texture from a photo. If a Tuban keris has ngulit semongko pamor, that pamor should be smooth to the touch, the pamor on this keris appears to have a rough texture, and that, plus the other things we can see in a photo, puts it into the Madura box.

But I guess we could still consider a Tuban classification. It is as I think we all understand:- there are limitations to what we can do with a photo, anything relatively positive can only come with the keris in hand.

Ian · 4th February 2023, 08:10 AM

Alan,

I think the texture looks rougher than it actually is because I used some photoshopping to sharpen the close-up pictures—you can see the threads of the cloth in the background of some of some of the images. As I rub my fingers over it, there is a "graininess" to the texture, equivalent to perhaps a 600 or 800 grit sandpaper. Definitely not as smooth as a 1500 grit paper. Does that help at all?

A. G. Maisey · 5th February 2023, 06:48 PM

Ian, if you can feel texture, then, it is not smooth.

In fact the textbook Tuban feeling is slightly slippery, but really, we do need the blade in hand to give any sort of supportable classification, the idea that we can do much more than just a preliminary assessment from an image on a screen is incorrect.

4th February 2023, 08:10 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	Alan, I think the texture looks rougher than it actually is because I used some photoshopping to sharpen the close-up pictures—you can see the threads of the cloth in the background of some of some of the images. As I rub my fingers over it, there is a "graininess" to the texture, equivalent to perhaps a 600 or 800 grit sandpaper. Definitely not as smooth as a 1500 grit paper. Does that help at all? Last edited by Ian; 4th February 2023 at 09:30 AM.

30th January 2023, 04:52 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Thanks for the added photo Ian. Though it is indeed possible that this sheath once belong to a smaller blade and was sized up for this one i would say it is unlikely. The sheath is obviously newer than the blade and appears to have been made specifically for it. I don't think it is at all unusual to find a Madurese blade in Javanese dress or vice versa. It is a nice keris over all.

31st January 2023, 01:45 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	I dug out the old sales docket for this keris in my files. It was purchased in 1999, and the docket simply says "Madurese keris and wooden sheath" and quotes information from the tag pasted to the back of the sheath.

31st January 2023, 10:04 AM	#5
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	Thank you for the additional photo, Ian. I believe that this is a pretty clear cut example of a Tuban gonjo.

31st January 2023, 10:06 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes Jaga, stylistically this gonjo is a good example of a Tuban keris that retains the original gonjo form. This form is often presented as nguceng mati (dead fish) which from above is straight sided with the buntut urang being sharply pointed, this sharp point has been caused by erosion over time, the original shape is still straight sided, but the buntut urang is cutoff short, resulting in a gonjo shorter than most other gonjos, and a very narrow buntut urang. From the side, a Tuban gonjo should be rather thick, and the gonjo on this keris is rather thick. Where this keris appears to fail a Tuban classification is in the nature of the pamor, I say "appears" because I cannot feel texture from a photo. If a Tuban keris has ngulit semongko pamor, that pamor should be smooth to the touch, the pamor on this keris appears to have a rough texture, and that, plus the other things we can see in a photo, puts it into the Madura box. But I guess we could still consider a Tuban classification. It is as I think we all understand:- there are limitations to what we can do with a photo, anything relatively positive can only come with the keris in hand.

5th February 2023, 06:48 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Ian, if you can feel texture, then, it is not smooth. In fact the textbook Tuban feeling is slightly slippery, but really, we do need the blade in hand to give any sort of supportable classification, the idea that we can do much more than just a preliminary assessment from an image on a screen is incorrect.