Sword for ID ... please

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Radboud

This is not necessarily the case. I have a full length (807mm blade) 1803 Pattern ‘Flank’ Officers sabre that only has the frog stud on the scabbard which shows no evidence of ever having had the suspension rings. One of my late 18th Century spadroons also only has the frog stud and thats a full length blade as well.

In fact almost all my swords with leather scabbards have a frog studd, even if they have suspension loops as well. Having both options offered the retailer flexibility in who the sword was sold to.

For the ones that don’t have the studd, a strong case can be made that they belonged to cavalry officers.

It seems that often these studs were a fixture on these leather brass mounted scabbards in addition to suspension rings as you note. I am wondering if perhaps flank company officers, who like infantry officers, were typically mounted might have preferred the option for both.

Will's suggestion of possibly India for this compellingly British hilt might be well placed as the unusually flamboyant character of the mounts. The idea of a colonial setting for this seems possible, and British officers were known for propensity for 'exotic' sword hybrids and trophy blades.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

..I am wondering if perhaps flank company officers, who like infantry officers, were typically mounted might have preferred the option for both.

...

...Until rifles became more prevalent on the battlefield, especially with skirmishers, who were rather fond of shooting officers, easily distinguished by being mounted. This also signalled the death-knell of infantry officers carrying swords in WW1. Maybe they still mounted for parades.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

...Until rifles became more prevalent on the battlefield, especially with skirmishers, who were rather fond of shooting officers, easily distinguished by being mounted. This also signalled the death-knell of infantry officers carrying swords in WW1. Maybe they still mounted for parades.

That makes perfect sense Wayne, thank you. Your military insights always bring things into perspective.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I am wondering if perhaps flank company officers, who like infantry officers, were typically mounted might have preferred the option for both.

Only the more senior officers were allowed to ride horses, the more junior ones would have marched with their men. Being mounted would have impeded the officers’ ability to guide their men, be it in the Line companies or the ‘Flank’ Companies i.e. Grenadiers and Light Infantry.

[fernando]

Thanks again, Gentlemen. That was the only picture my friend had from the dealer. Now he got a few more.


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[Radboud]

The engraving is very similar to what is on one of my French swords by Cassaignard in Nantes where he worked as a furbisher from 1774 to 1812. From what I have read, it is believed he used Solingen made blades, but the sword, sun and face in the moon images are common on his sword. I’d be curious to hear if there is any writing under the langets.

The scabbard as noted earlier looks more French than English, but the drag should be in steel not copper like this and mine, a sure sign that it’s a new replacement.

The hilt on the other hand looks to be 100% English, esp with the little detailing inside the top corner of the knuckle bow. However the grip leather and wire are too new in relation to the rest of the sword.

My thought is that this is a composite sword made out of a cut down blade.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you for the added pics. Now seeing these markings I can see they are very much "Caissagnard' as Radboud notes. These kinds of cosmological symbols are typically associated with Solingen as noted as well, however their origins seem to be well associated with Eastern Europe. This is particularly the case with the arm and sword out of the cloud.

It is quite likely that Caissagnard got blades from Solingen, much as many cutlers/furbishers etc. did in the latter 18th c. I think the other sources in France may have used German blades as well, before Klingenthal was officially established in this time, though German makers were present in the shops.

In the latter 18th c. George III and his son, Prince of Wales (later George IV) like most of the gentry in England, were greatly influenced by things French. Despite the constant threat of war, it seems the contacts with French upper echelon remained at hand.

This hilt I agree looks very British, and the blade is most certainly shorter than it once was. It very well could be a blade which came through Nantes, but its final disposition is anybody's guess. Officers of all branches had carte blanche in their interpretations and fashion. Fascinating whatever it is.

[awdaniec666]

These Solingen blades from the 1st half of the 18th century do appear oddly often on later hilts and are commonly shortened. This style of blade with its fullers was mainly made for East-Central Europe. Local production of a similar design however started in the mid 19th century as a consequence of patriotic and nostalgic momentum where these unfullered ricassos were used to place iconic or written dedications.