Keris identification

[David]

I agree that these days the origin of the parts of such a keris can be gathered from numerous sources. I could guess and say, yeah, the blade is probably from Madura, the sunggungan looks Javanese to me, etc., but the problem here is that for newly made keris, as we move more and more forward in time, the separations of cultures seems to become more and ore generic. Certainly this keris is intended to represent Balinese form and aesthetic, the the crafts people who make all these parts are no longer restricted to their own corner off the archipelago. What you have here is a nice modern art keris that could have been assembled from parts created in a number of different places.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by David

I agree that these days the origin of the parts of such a keris can be gathered from numerous sources. I could guess and say, yeah, the blade is probably from Madura, the sunggungan looks Javanese to me, etc., but the problem here is that for newly made keris, as we move more and more forward in time, the separations of cultures seems to become more and ore generic. Certainly this keris is intended to represent Balinese form and aesthetic, the the crafts people who make all these parts are no longer restricted to their own corner off the archipelago. What you have here is a nice modern art keris that could have been assembled from parts created in a number of different places.

I love your answer

[Anthony G.]

My answer is as below:


1: Bilah source: Forge in Madura by a reputable smith.

2: Warangka and Hulu source: In Lombok.

3: Painting source: In Java.

4: Pendok source: In Lombok.



The reason for doing so as those best craftsmen are located around Indonesia and therefore it is sent to individuals to make the keris.

**Therefore I am not surprise that some antique keris might be 'made' and or adjust as time goes by in this manner as well.
Even in the past, craftsmen travel around.

[rasdan]

I think the practice of sourcing the parts for a keris is completely normal even in the past. The reason that old keris usually have a locally sourced parts is probably due to cost restrictions. For higher level keris, people that can afford it will look for quality thus we can see an ensemble of high-quality parts and blade probably made in different locations put together for a royal keris.

I think people in the past do not really care too much if their keris reflects their birthplace/nationality; they just want quality keris /parts for their keris. The practice of having a geographical identity for keris probably develops in later times where the beliefs surrounding a keris has evolved and spread to different areas, and people tend to have more “tribal pride” (rather than just a sense for quality) and/or when royal houses started to have standardised dress codes for their courts.

It is like the present-day pride of owning a German car. (If I can use this analogy) A lot of people appreciate and are proud of owning a German car because of its quality and legacy regardless of where the owner originates. I think probably nobody (or not many) in Yugoslavia will insists on only driving an all-original Yugo when they can afford a better car just because the Yugo originates in their country.

[David]

Originally Posted by rasdan

I think people in the past do not really care too much if their keris reflects their birthplace/nationality; they just want quality keris /parts for their keris. The practice of having a geographical identity for keris probably develops in later times where the beliefs surrounding a keris has evolved and spread to different areas, and people tend to have more “tribal pride” (rather than just a sense for quality) and/or when royal houses started to have standardised dress codes for their courts.

I don't know how true that is Rasdan. My point about how modern keris are becoming more generic with time i don't think really applies to the past. Keris styles, especially of dress, which is the outward appearance of the keris that was presented to society, i believe were rather formalized, at least when we are discussing keris on a court level. As for people within that specific culture on the village level, those folks probably didn't have a level of income that would permit them to seek high end craftspeople in different parts of the archipelago to create their keris parts. When we see elements in village keris that don't quite meet the standards set by the keraton or puri it is not due to workmanship done outside if the culture, but rather the common folks doing the best they can to emulate what the higher classes are doing.
When i look at this keris, yes, it presents itself as a Bali keris, but for many it is really easy to see that certain aspects of it just don't seem quite right for a true Balinese keris. I think that is fine for a modern "art" keris like this, however, for the social functioning of a keris as element of formal dress in cultural situations i am not so sure this was something that would have been embraced by members a specific keris culture back in the day.

[A. G. Maisey]

What I have seen, both in old & recent pieces is that where an area is under direct influence of a ruling class, possibly located in a kraton or other center of power, everybody in that area will follow the styles used by the elites. I do mean everybody where Jawa is concerned.

The further away from that power center people live, the weaker the influence of elite style. When we move into distant & isolated settlements the various components of a complete keris become very mixed.

[rasdan]

I agree with Alan and David. I just observe sometime probably between the 1700s to 1800s there is a practice where gold kerises uses very similar style of sheath regardless of the “nationality” of the owner. Composite, but not a work a dealer. Photos below.

Lots of possibility, however. Probably that is the generic type of sheath of the time since western Java keris also uses the similar type of sheath.

Even hilts styles, hilt cups cross borders. Javanese blades or Javanese style blades seems to be a favourite. One thing that shows is that they go quality and the go for the bling.