Kaskara?? Expensive to say the least.

Edster · 10th December 2022, 10:14 PM

Ariel,

Actually, the crusaders did do a well documented raid in the Red Sea in 1182-83.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40000370
But, even though there were crusader battle trophies in Eqyptian museums, I agree the crusader connection to the kaskara is likely a Victorian marketing ploy.

The mechanical jammed wooden attachment of the kaskara's blade to the cross guard seems to me to be an innovation to the Mamluk method.

The Sennar (chisel) ends on some cross guards is a kaskara innovation over the rhomboid, as is the welded four part method of fabricating the overall cross guard. Unlike the cast cross guard preferred by the Mamluks.

Regards,
Ed

Jim McDougall · 10th December 2022, 11:22 PM

It would indeed be most important to have these inscriptions translated as this would establish more toward the dating of the blade by the context of the wording and other information. Clearly this is an important blade, which has heirloom connection as Teodor has noted.
While not necessarily the oldest blade from a kaskara, and may well be earlier than 18th century, it is certainly among the often extremely old blades which made their way into Egypt and Sudan.

Ed, your observations on these cross guards and the stylistic characteristics of these hilts are among the most important references toward the proper identification of kaskara's. The Fung influences from Sennar are indeed very notable with the flared terminals.

Well noted on the European trophy swords from the Crusades which were in Alexandria, and it is interesting that the Mamluks were largely the predominant Islamic forces during many of the Crusades. The Mamluks of course were the rulers in Egypt until their overthrow in the 16th c.

The comparison of the broadswords and mail armor seen by Victorian writers were of course romantically placed in the sensationalized accounts, and were taken quite literally. Ironically many of the blades, actually did have early European origins, and had been coming into North Africa from trade networks which brought them included with trade blades of early years.

Richard G · 11th December 2022, 07:03 PM

If it can be linked to the Mamluk arsenal at Alexandria, maybe through the inscription, then £100K seems about right.
Regards
Richard
PS. I bet the auctioners are still reeling!

kronckew · 12th December 2022, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G

...
PS. I bet the auctioners are still reeling!

Laughing and partying all the way to the bank. Not a bad return for a few minutes work. I've heard of someone who was expecting to pay a couple grand , and resell it at a profit. The auction listing just describes the inscriptions as 'a yellow metal', not gold.

Kmaddock · 12th December 2022, 11:59 AM

For those that did not see, the auction guide price was 200-400 Pounds
Happy Christmas to someone!!

Regards

Ken

Battara · 12th December 2022, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

The auction listing just describes the inscriptions as 'a yellow metal', not gold.

I've noticed that in order not to get into trouble, dealers and auction houses won't list "silver" or "gold" because they don't bother to test the material or have the testing kits. "German silver" and bronze when polished look like silver or gold, so they list the metal details ambiguously.

Jim McDougall · 12th December 2022, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I've noticed that in order not to get into trouble, dealers and auction houses won't list "silver" or "gold" because they don't bother to test the material or have the testing kits. "German silver" and bronze when polished look like silver or gold, so they list the metal details ambiguously.

That is a very astute and well placed note. Those tend to make things complicated.

Edster · 13th December 2022, 12:00 AM

This is truly a mystery kaskara. The auction pre-bid price is about right for a fine, but not great kaskara. So the seller didn't think it was exceptional, likely unaware of its true provenance. Once seen by the major bidders its significance emerged, and they bid it far beyond even the best Ali Dinar types, the highest in Sudanese origin kaskara quality. What may the inscriptions tell us??

10th December 2022, 10:14 PM	#1
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Ariel, Actually, the crusaders did do a well documented raid in the Red Sea in 1182-83. https://www.jstor.org/stable/40000370 But, even though there were crusader battle trophies in Eqyptian museums, I agree the crusader connection to the kaskara is likely a Victorian marketing ploy. The mechanical jammed wooden attachment of the kaskara's blade to the cross guard seems to me to be an innovation to the Mamluk method. The Sennar (chisel) ends on some cross guards is a kaskara innovation over the rhomboid, as is the welded four part method of fabricating the overall cross guard. Unlike the cast cross guard preferred by the Mamluks. Regards, Ed

10th December 2022, 11:22 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	It would indeed be most important to have these inscriptions translated as this would establish more toward the dating of the blade by the context of the wording and other information. Clearly this is an important blade, which has heirloom connection as Teodor has noted. While not necessarily the oldest blade from a kaskara, and may well be earlier than 18th century, it is certainly among the often extremely old blades which made their way into Egypt and Sudan. Ed, your observations on these cross guards and the stylistic characteristics of these hilts are among the most important references toward the proper identification of kaskara's. The Fung influences from Sennar are indeed very notable with the flared terminals. Well noted on the European trophy swords from the Crusades which were in Alexandria, and it is interesting that the Mamluks were largely the predominant Islamic forces during many of the Crusades. The Mamluks of course were the rulers in Egypt until their overthrow in the 16th c. The comparison of the broadswords and mail armor seen by Victorian writers were of course romantically placed in the sensationalized accounts, and were taken quite literally. Ironically many of the blades, actually did have early European origins, and had been coming into North Africa from trade networks which brought them included with trade blades of early years.

11th December 2022, 07:03 PM	#3
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 409	If it can be linked to the Mamluk arsenal at Alexandria, maybe through the inscription, then £100K seems about right. Regards Richard PS. I bet the auctioners are still reeling!

12th December 2022, 11:59 AM	#5
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	For those that did not see, the auction guide price was 200-400 Pounds Happy Christmas to someone!! Regards Ken

13th December 2022, 12:00 AM	#8
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	This is truly a mystery kaskara. The auction pre-bid price is about right for a fine, but not great kaskara. So the seller didn't think it was exceptional, likely unaware of its true provenance. Once seen by the major bidders its significance emerged, and they bid it far beyond even the best Ali Dinar types, the highest in Sudanese origin kaskara quality. What may the inscriptions tell us??