A naginata ... real or fake.

[ariel]

That is exactly the reason I do not collect Nihonto: it is supposed to be either perfect or it is junk

[Klop]

my 2 cents; the tang (nakago) seems to be shortened, ending square and I would expect it to be about the same length as the blade part. At the japanese sword forum Nihonto Message Board they have a translation help section, advice would be to post it there. Signatures often follow patterns, in this case possibly: Provence name -honorary title- smith name-"made by". Please let us know what it turns out to be

Oh, and maybe redundant; don't clean/sand/polish/whatever the nakago. Color and filemarks are indicators of age.

Kind regards,
Eric

[fernando]

Thank you Eric; will do. Someone is already helping me establish such contact.
And by the way; about the shortened tang:

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/naginata.html

[Battara]

Originally Posted by ariel

That is exactly the reason I do not collect Nihonto: it is supposed to be either perfect or it is junk

I'll make a small correction to this statement: if the blade is very old, like Koto (500+ years old) or so, then some flaws are in fact expected and do not detract horribly to the value. Old blades like this may have some kizu or blisters, but where they are on the blade and how they are positioned will determine value. On later pieces, Ariel is correct - perfection is preferred if not expected.

(Sorry Ariel for the accidental editing - wrong button )

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Battara

... perfection is preferred if not expected...

Let us then give a chance to a wider notion of perfection.
Suppose, in my imagination, i find evidence that the item in discussion was brought back by Portuguese navigators during the XVI century or so.
I would clearly reject any proposal to swap it for any 'common' example in pristine condition ... with ID card and all.
No doubt my Naginata is not indicated for Nihonto perfectionists but, would be the 'perfect find' for me .


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[CutlassCollector]

Originally Posted by fernando

Let us then give a chance to a wider notion of perfection.
Suppose, in my imagination, i find evidence that the item in discussion was brought back by Portuguese navigators during the XVI century or so.
I would clearly reject any proposal to swap it for any 'common' example in pristine condition ... with ID card and all.
No doubt my Naginata is not indicated for Nihonto perfectionists but, would be the 'perfect find' for me .
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And no doubt it is a great find Fernando and a worthy addition to your collection preserved as it is.

Good finds and history is what makes collecting so interesting.

It could well have been brought back with the early explorers but I have another theory that occurs to me because the blade is in such good condition for a 500 year old sword - compare it with western blades of the same age, that have not spent life in a museum.
It suggests, perhaps, that it was treasured and cared for by a samurai family for generations and only in the last few decades has it been left to rust.
We know the samurai did not just disappear but became the officer class in army, navy and air force. They took their ancestral swords to war in modern mounts. Some pilots carried short blades - wakizashi or tanto in their cockpits and a naginata can be mounted in short sword form with a shortened tang.

After the Japanese defeat in 1945 the swords were surrendered. Soldiers took them home as spoils of war and it is thought that over 100,000 Japanese swords are in the USA and many more in the UK and Europe. Many of these would not have been subject to the same regular care as in a Japanese household.

Just a theory of course, but it would help explain its great condition.

[fernando]

Thank you CC.
A rather rational reasoning .

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Fernando,
These items may possibly be of assistance.
My Regards,
Norman.

[fernando]

Thanks much, Norman. With yours, i have gathered quite a few suggestions by now. This one comes with an injection system.

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[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by fernando

Let us then give a chance to a wider notion of perfection.
Suppose, in my imagination, i find evidence that the item in discussion was brought back by Portuguese navigators during the XVI century or so.
I would clearly reject any proposal to swap it for any 'common' example in pristine condition ... with ID card and all.
No doubt my Naginata is not indicated for Nihonto perfectionists but, would be the 'perfect find' for me .

I had the good fortune to see this amazing screen a few years ago in Moscow at an exhibition dedicated to Portuguese navigators. Unfortunately, there were almost no weapons there (which I hoped in my heart). But there were wonderful objects of the XV-XVII centuries from Japan, China, India, West Africa, which changed my point of view on the works of that era. In particular, Japanese lacquerware is very different from our usual products of the XIX-XX centuries. The same can be attributed to Chinese porcelain.

In my opinion, Japanese weapons of the XVI-XVIII centuries located in European museums and got there before the lifting of the ban after the Meiji restoration, is an interesting subject for scientific research. In addition to the very fact of its presence, this weapon can tell a lot about the diplomatic, trade and cultural ties between the states and peoples of the East and West. I am sure that in Portugal they can tell a lot about this to the whole world. And it is hard to imagine how much we could have known if the Great Lisbon earthquake of 1755 had not destroyed so many artifacts and documents of the history of navigation.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

I had the good fortune to see this amazing screen a few years ago in Moscow at an exhibition dedicated to Portuguese navigators. Unfortunately, there were almost no weapons there (which I hoped in my heart). But there were wonderful objects of the XV-XVII centuries from Japan, China, India, West Africa, which changed my point of view on the works of that era. In particular, Japanese lacquerware is very different from our usual products of the XIX-XX centuries. The same can be attributed to Chinese porcelain.

In my opinion, Japanese weapons of the XVI-XVIII centuries located in European museums and got there before the lifting of the ban after the Meiji restoration, is an interesting subject for scientific research. In addition to the very fact of its presence, this weapon can tell a lot about the diplomatic, trade and cultural ties between the states and peoples of the East and West. I am sure that in Portugal they can tell a lot about this to the whole world. And it is hard to imagine how much we could have known if the Great Lisbon earthquake of 1755 had not destroyed so many artifacts and documents of the history of navigation.

Absolutely, Ren Ren. I see that you are well informed. In the great exhibition "ENCOMPASSING THE GLOBE - Portugal and the World in the 16th & 17th Centuries (organized by the Smithsonian), several examples of Japanese/Portuguese cultural exchange, the so called Nanban Art, may be seen; from which a powder flask, a couple of Nagenashima muskets ... and a Christian Japanese ( note the crucifix).


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[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by fernando

Absolutely, Ren Ren. I see that you are well informed. In the great exhibition "ENCOMPASSING THE GLOBE - Portugal and the World in the 16th & 17th Centuries (organized by the Smithsonian), several examples of Japanese/Portuguese cultural exchange, the so called Nanban Art, may be seen; from which a powder flask, a couple of Nagenashima muskets ... and a Christian Japanese ( note the crucifix).


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Thanks Fernando! These are rare and wonderful examples of Japan's cross-cultural connections.

[fernando]

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