Pesh-kabz dating.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Yep, this would be a typical zirah-bouk.
And I like it too!

... the very thick tip is very badly suited for armour penetration. ...

So, I suspect these knives are mostly a 20th century development for the tourist market.

the spike on pole-axes, halberds, Guden tags, and even some rondels, of much the same cross section & shapes, ruined the days of many an armoured knight, not penetrating the armour, but the gaps, throats, eyes, ears, etc. An unarmoured Indian warrior would be very vulnerable, I would think, tho personally I'd rather have a nice sharp bowie.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by kronckew

the spike on pole-axes, halberds, Guden tags, and even some rondels, of much the same cross section & shapes, ruined the days of many an armoured knight, not penetrating the armour, but the gaps, throats, eyes, ears, etc. An unarmoured Indian warrior would be very vulnerable, I would think, tho personally I'd rather have a nice sharp bowie.

A halebard or a pole axe are slightly different types of knives...😜

And I don't think the geometry of a rondel dagger is even remotely similar to that of the zirah-bouk.

But can you find an example of zirah-bouk that is older than 20th century?!

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

...
And I don't think the geometry of a rondel dagger is even remotely similar to that of the zirah-bouk.

...

Fernando's classy rondel is very spiky, basically a three sided spike optimized for thrusting, presumably thru armour gaps or into un-armoured people, like the weapons I mentioned. Swordfish posted another more zira bouk looking one.


Fernando's Rondel Post


Swordfish's post


Here's an 18/19c zira bouk from the metropolitan museum.

[kai]

Never trust any museum attribution at face value!

What you're looking for is acquisition date (and possibly any earlier documented provenance). Even this needs to be checked since mix-ups do happen.

Anything else needs to be viewed in the light of the expertise of the person proposing any attribution (if relevant for the given piece!).

Looks like a promising older example though. Thanks, Wayne!

Regards,
Kai

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Fernando's classy rondel is very spiky, basically a three sided spike optimized for thrusting, presumably thru armour gaps or into un-armoured people, like the weapons I mentioned. Swordfish posted another more zira bouk looking one.


Fernando's Rondel Post


Swordfish's post


Here's an 18/19c zira bouk from the metropolitan museum.

Thank you very much for the photo!
This is probably the oldest example I have seen. And indeed looks like it could be 19th century. 👍