Saxon Arms

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

I think he is looking for swords and other weapons made in or made for the electorate of Saxony

Again, this is most interesting, and while it seems over years on occasion I have seen swords identified as "Saxon' but simply regarded it as as a term of heightened specificity over the more general 'German' classification.

I have always recognized the axiom, 'weapon forms have no geographic boundaries' . Obviously certain forms had preferences in certain local regions and were preponderant in them, but was there some distinct characteristic that would signify a sword was specifically from the defined Saxon area?
Clearly there have been notable geopolitical changes in this state over many centuries, so that further begs the question, what defines a Saxon sword?

In the more recent centuries of course, military swords would have cyphers, inscriptions, coats of arms which specified Saxony, but with images of edged weapons without such identifying elements, what in the images in the OP signifies that these are 'Saxon'.

The serpent on the ricasso in the second image is of course associated with Milan and used by makers variously in that context.

[Merenti]

Thank you for your many responses. I really should have been more specific, I'm really concerned with the Saxon rapiers, daggers and estoc made for the Elector and for the Trabant Guard

[Merenti]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Again, this is most interesting, and while it seems over years on occasion I have seen swords identified as "Saxon' but simply regarded it as as a term of heightened specificity over the more general 'German' classification.

I have always recognized the axiom, 'weapon forms have no geographic boundaries' . Obviously certain forms had preferences in certain local regions and were preponderant in them, but was there some distinct characteristic that would signify a sword was specifically from the defined Saxon area?
Clearly there have been notable geopolitical changes in this state over many centuries, so that further begs the question, what defines a Saxon sword?

In the more recent centuries of course, military swords would have cyphers, inscriptions, coats of arms which specified Saxony, but with images of edged weapons without such identifying elements, what in the images in the OP signifies that these are 'Saxon'.

The serpent on the ricasso in the second image is of course associated with Milan and used by makers variously in that context.

very well worded


the Reformation gave Saxony a very high status. I'll try to share what I know so far this weekend.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Merenti

very well worded


the Reformation gave Saxony a very high status. I'll try to share what I know so far this weekend.

Thank you so much Merenti. Looking forward to hearing more on your insights from your research, and very pertinent topic.

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The serpent on the ricasso in the second image is of course associated with Milan and used by makers variously in that context.

It is interesting to know that the nearly same snake-mark is the sign of the DANNER-family at Nürnberg

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

It is interesting to know that the nearly same snake-mark is the sign of the DANNER-family at Nürnberg

Good catch Udo!!!
What reference is this!? I must have it it surely leaves the standard compendiums in the dust.

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Good catch Udo!!!
What reference is this!? I must have it it surely leaves the standard compendiums in the dust.

Eugen Heer, Der Neue Stoeckel, Schwäbisch Hall 1978, 3 volumes, 2280 pages, this opus is a MUST!!!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

Eugen Heer, Der Neue Stoeckel, Schwäbisch Hall 1978, 3 volumes, 2280 pages, this opus is a MUST!!!

Thank you Udo
Sounds pretty obscure and expensive.........the search begins. Your endorsement is motivating, so as Holmes would say, "the games afoot!".

[Merenti]

1.0

I try to give my opinion a little free rein here, I also listen to your opinions. I'm happy to accept additions and try to incorporate them. Of course, I will also name sources.


I would like to start with what I think is the simplest variant

The Saxon estoc with a simple eight-sided pommel and lines. Carried as a secondary weapon on horseback. In the version shown, probably for simple court servants on horseback.

The version with different blades (triangular and square) and usually provided with the Pi brand. There were leather sleeves and metal sleeves for the transition from scabbard to blade.

A chronological classification is difficult, but I assume 1590-1600.


Sidenotes:

1. The mounted contingent of the Saxon Trebanten guard was formed of a company of one hundred men on black horses.

2.Their uniform included a blackened comb morion (a type of open helmet used from the middle 16th to early 17th centuries) with etched and gilt ornament, black doublets and yellow hose and stockings, the colours being those of the Arms of the Electors of Saxony.

Source: Copyright © 2016 Peter Finer

[Merenti]

1.1

2 estocs with triangular blades and the same pommel. From the Rüstkammer collection in Dresden.