Walloon, not really?

[Hotspur]

I have found the thread to be very informative and have restrained my own thoughts due to real ignorance of the scope in time we are looking at.

The more I read of the descriptive terms, it seems like a timeline needs to be included to categorize the specific forms. Walloons best regarding the late century infantry swords.

My one example may be later 17th century, with the fully developed inboard plate. Also a plain broad hewing blade of cavalry length.

Some descriptions get parsed to death as to literal meanings, so that just adds more to simply calling everything a walloon (when they are not).

Thanks for this thread!

GC

[Cathey]

Hi Hotspur

Thankyou for posting this sword, a very nice example of this particular group. Yet another variation of a Kings head mark, it looks like the face on yours is slightly turned towards the front which I havn't seen before. This and some healthy debate over other variations has prompted me to make this a sub section of my article and try and conclude who used which particuar Kings Head. The kings head mark in some form appears to feature on many examples of these swords.

If you have any other swords with a kings head mark I would love to see them.

Cheers Cathey

[Cathey]

With regard to the kings head mark on blades which caused me to revisit my references. The variations are astounding, even when they can be attributed to a single maker. Attached is what I have found in my references so far. I will try not to get distracted by this area of research but it will certainly be worth revisiting when the Walloon/campaign article is complete.

Cheer Cathey

[toaster5sqn]

So here is the walloon type sword with a kings head mark I found in the Auckland War Memorial Museum, which they had mislabeled as a rapier!
My initial research into the Kings Head turned up the Wundes family but upon further digging I figured it had to be Martino Antonio because it faced left. Now you show me pictures that say the Wundes family mark could face either way. If anyone has any firm idea of this exact mark it would be appreciated, no other marks are to be seen on the blade.

[Jim McDougall]

While the focus on makers marks, specifically the 'konigskopf' (=kings head), is in some sense a digression, it is salient in some manner as pertains to these sword forms.

The 'kings head' is well known initially to the Wundes' family of Solingen from late 16th c. into 18th, however in mid to latter 18th it was adopted by the dominant Solingen Weyersberg dynasty, in which there seems to have been abundant variations. In the pages from "The Plug Bayonet" by the late Roger Evans, the mysteries of these often almost wildly variant images of kings head marks seem to have been used by different family members in different periods. Often these dies would become worn or broken, or in cases simply revised in degree to signify individual note.
There is the suggestion of possible use by the German makers who had gone to England in early 18th century to Hounslow using these Solingen marks, just as with the 'running wolf' , however this seems unlikely.

Naturally there have always been cases where well established marks were purloined on other blades, which was a matter of notable disagreement and dispute, but ironically, many markings used in Solingen were spuriously used from other countries, esp. Spain. and the guild registered markings were notably monitored.

It is interesting that in the Wundes group of kings head marks there is one with reduced points of the 'crown' referring to it as a 'conventionalized' version. In the 17th c.. Kohl was using a very similar 'emperors head', so this I'm sure might be factored in.

The 'green man' image with crown was among the figures popular in English themes in hilt decoration early 17th c. (see "British Military Swords 1600-1660" Stuart Mowbray , 2013 for further reading.

Here I would note regarding the use of these 'walloon' type swords in Sweden is further supported by the fact that Casper Kohl of Solingen went to Wira in Sweden in 1630s and there brought in other Solingen smiths as well. As these types of swords were seemingly predominant in German manufacture it seems likely they were made there, as with note to issuance of these by Gustavus Adolphus. Perhaps this might account for the term attributing these in cases being 'Swedish swords'.

[M ELEY]

Here's my Wundes head marking from my Scottish basket hilt. Very similar to yours, Toaster-

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Here's my Wundes head marking from my Scottish basket hilt. Very similar to yours, Toaster-

This is an amazing Scottish basket hilt of latter 17th c. and it seems had multiple kings head stamps in linear progression, which was another of the variable applications using this mark. Obviously not 'every' Scottish basket hilt had an ANDREA FERARA blade, though that was one of the most favored.

In these times, the Netherlands were one of the most prevalent entrepots of arms and blades from Germany were of course well known going into North England in notable quantity. This was likely the reason they often became termed colloquially 'Dutch' blades, when in fact 'Duetsche'.

With this being the case it does not seem surprising that the bilobate hilt arming swords which became collectively deemed 'walloons' were so widely popular in European armies, as often fully assembled swords were among commerce distributed through there.