Movies and Edged Weapons Pt. 2

Battara · 28th January 2005, 10:42 PM

I'm so pleased that everyone is enjoying "Legend of Suriothai".

Here is another movie by one of my all time favorite directors, Kurosawa: "Ran". It takes place in medieval Japan and the story line itself is an adaptation of Shakespear's "King Lear". Actually I recommend all of his films like "Kogamusha", "Seven Samurai", and "Sanguro", etc.

More recently I like the action and true sword play in the "Kill Bill" series.

Rick, yes I saw the Ring of Fire series and I thought it wonderfully done.

Rick · 28th January 2005, 10:56 PM

God help me , but I do dearly love Branagh's production of Henry V .

Battara · 30th January 2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

God help me , but I do dearly love Branagh's production of Henry V .

Rick that is my favorite rendition of Henry V as well.

BTW - on the backs of those elephants, I too thought those were considered dha. And "dha" fighting on the back of the elephants!

nechesh · 7th May 2005, 09:51 PM

OK, i HIGHLY recommend you all go see the new Ridley Scott film "Kingdom of Heaven". The repros in it are absolutely amazing, especially some of the Muslim armor. Beautiful swords, great battle scenes, but ultimately a film more about peace than war. The acting is great, the cinematography sumptuous and Oscar-worthy. Actually worth the $8.50 and a must-see on the big screen.

BluErf · 8th May 2005, 03:37 AM

It was a nice movie with laudable messages of courage, honour, love, peace, humanity, faith and very importantly, an attempt (not perfect, I agree) at unbiased portrayal of both Christian and Muslim sides. And Ghassan Moussad (portraying Salahuddin) has a laser-beam stare that will burn right through you

.

But too bad, many people who saw it were bickering over historical technicalities.

Now back to the arms and armour -- I like the part when Balian duelled with the Muslim cavalier for possession of the black horse. The sword (forgive me, but I do not know the name of it) used by the Muslim cavalier looked like a very efficient slasher with a mean chop.

Now, the close-up of Salahuddin's helm was a bit of a disappointment to my novice eyes. Having seen some of the more ornate helms put on auction before, I thought it could have been finer. But then again, functional armour may not be as ornate as parade fineries.

M.carter · 8th May 2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

It was a nice movie with laudable messages of courage, honour, love, peace, humanity, faith and very importantly, an attempt (not perfect, I agree) at unbiased portrayal of both Christian and Muslim sides. And Ghassan Moussad (portraying Salahuddin) has a laser-beam stare that will burn right through you

.

But too bad, many people who saw it were bickering over historical technicalities.

Now back to the arms and armour -- I like the part when Balian duelled with the Muslim cavalier for possession of the black horse. The sword (forgive me, but I do not know the name of it) used by the Muslim cavalier looked like a very efficient slasher with a mean chop.

Now, the close-up of Salahuddin's helm was a bit of a disappointment to my novice eyes. Having seen some of the more ornate helms put on auction before, I thought it could have been finer. But then again, functional armour may not be as ornate as parade fineries.

Yeah, Ghassan Massoud was an excellent actor for this character I liked his stare when they were bombarding Jerusalem at night.

About that Duel in the beginning, that seemed so real! I felt that in any moment one of the actors might hit the other by mistake. I also noticed how 'wickedly' curved and pointed that saif was! It seems like an excellent slasher. I also noticed a very important thing, when that cavalier dismounted and started fighting balian on foot, before he started attacking, he had his forearm raised and his sword's spin over it, with the tip pointing down. Is that some sort of arabian swordsmanship?!

nechesh · 8th May 2005, 03:35 PM

Well, i certainly can't speak from any point of expertise, but it is my understanding that the makers went to great lengths to make the film as historically accurate as possible. While promoting the film at the Ritz Carlton in Pasadena recently they even put on a morning seminar on the Crusades presented by Donald Spoto (The Hidden Jesus; A New Life), Hamid Dabashi (Islamic history scholar and Prof. at Columbia University) and Nancy Caciola (Midieval history Prof. at the University of California). I assume these folks were also consultants on the film along with many others. In the end though, it is just a movie and sometimes exact accuracy must be sacrificed to move the plot along. Seems silly to argue though since it is obviously meant as a fictionalized account.

tom hyle · 8th May 2005, 03:39 PM

Haven't seen the movie; haven't seen the duel, but it sounds like a posture seen with both European and Japanese swordfighting; it wouldn't surprise me if it's seen in between; the sword hand on high, the blade tip facing forward and down with the main cutting edge facing forward and up; a position good for the deadly downward behind the shield thrust into the chest/throat (especially with a curved blade), and from which a cut can be deployed more quickly than from the high-and-back position that guards your sword (as seen in earlier medieval European art, for instance), and also allows/implies the protective use of the blade. The sheild, or lacking one, left arm, deployed for parries, grappling, etc..........On the other hand, it's fairly typical for newer "Hollywood" type movies that the martial arts are flavor of the month of what's on the N American scene, regardless of relevance to the historical milieu depicted; thus we've had the 3 musketeers using rapiers as if they were daito, and the opposite ridiculousness in old historical dramas with the sheild held to the rear, and sword in front; MacBeth using his spatha like a smallsword......sounds like this movie promulgates the ignorant popular idea of curved Islamic swords, and the glimpses of the commercials I've had may bear that out? Nice to hear it's not an antiMuslim hatefest, though.

Rivkin · 8th May 2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.carter

Is that some sort of arabian swordsmanship?!

Sorry for interrupting, but I always thought that Salahadin's army was as unarabic as possible. Kurd commanding kipchaqs, circassians and some turks (after purging the army of africans).

It was also my understanding that the responsibility for training lied mostly on kipchaqs.

Brucetroy · 25th November 2005, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

OK, i HIGHLY recommend you all go see the new Ridley Scott film "Kingdom of Heaven". The repros in it are absolutely amazing, especially some of the Muslim armor. Beautiful swords, great battle scenes, but ultimately a film more about peace than war. The acting is great, the cinematography sumptuous and Oscar-worthy. Actually worth the $8.50 and a must-see on the big screen.

I agree .I loved Kingdom of heaven.
How acurate was it historically and what years did the events supposedly cover ?
Thanks for a reply .
Cheers
Bruce

nechesh · 25th November 2005, 12:50 PM

Hi Brucetroy. You probably responded to my post before moving on through the thread, but i think you will find the answers to you questions in the discussion that followed.

Spunjer · 26th December 2005, 10:44 PM

add to the list, Bang-Rajan, an epic thai movie depicting the legendary villge of bang-rajan during the siam burmese war... lots and lots of sword fights and dhas...

28th January 2005, 10:56 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Speaking of Shakespeare God help me , but I do dearly love Branagh's production of Henry V .

7th May 2005, 09:51 PM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	A must-see film! OK, i HIGHLY recommend you all go see the new Ridley Scott film "Kingdom of Heaven". The repros in it are absolutely amazing, especially some of the Muslim armor. Beautiful swords, great battle scenes, but ultimately a film more about peace than war. The acting is great, the cinematography sumptuous and Oscar-worthy. Actually worth the $8.50 and a must-see on the big screen.

28th January 2005, 10:42 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I'm so pleased that everyone is enjoying "Legend of Suriothai". Here is another movie by one of my all time favorite directors, Kurosawa: "Ran". It takes place in medieval Japan and the story line itself is an adaptation of Shakespear's "King Lear". Actually I recommend all of his films like "Kogamusha", "Seven Samurai", and "Sanguro", etc. More recently I like the action and true sword play in the "Kill Bill" series. Rick, yes I saw the Ring of Fire series and I thought it wonderfully done.

8th May 2005, 03:37 AM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	It was a nice movie with laudable messages of courage, honour, love, peace, humanity, faith and very importantly, an attempt (not perfect, I agree) at unbiased portrayal of both Christian and Muslim sides. And Ghassan Moussad (portraying Salahuddin) has a laser-beam stare that will burn right through you . But too bad, many people who saw it were bickering over historical technicalities. Now back to the arms and armour -- I like the part when Balian duelled with the Muslim cavalier for possession of the black horse. The sword (forgive me, but I do not know the name of it) used by the Muslim cavalier looked like a very efficient slasher with a mean chop. Now, the close-up of Salahuddin's helm was a bit of a disappointment to my novice eyes. Having seen some of the more ornate helms put on auction before, I thought it could have been finer. But then again, functional armour may not be as ornate as parade fineries.

8th May 2005, 03:35 PM	#7
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Well, i certainly can't speak from any point of expertise, but it is my understanding that the makers went to great lengths to make the film as historically accurate as possible. While promoting the film at the Ritz Carlton in Pasadena recently they even put on a morning seminar on the Crusades presented by Donald Spoto (The Hidden Jesus; A New Life), Hamid Dabashi (Islamic history scholar and Prof. at Columbia University) and Nancy Caciola (Midieval history Prof. at the University of California). I assume these folks were also consultants on the film along with many others. In the end though, it is just a movie and sometimes exact accuracy must be sacrificed to move the plot along. Seems silly to argue though since it is obviously meant as a fictionalized account.

8th May 2005, 03:39 PM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Haven't seen the movie; haven't seen the duel, but it sounds like a posture seen with both European and Japanese swordfighting; it wouldn't surprise me if it's seen in between; the sword hand on high, the blade tip facing forward and down with the main cutting edge facing forward and up; a position good for the deadly downward behind the shield thrust into the chest/throat (especially with a curved blade), and from which a cut can be deployed more quickly than from the high-and-back position that guards your sword (as seen in earlier medieval European art, for instance), and also allows/implies the protective use of the blade. The sheild, or lacking one, left arm, deployed for parries, grappling, etc..........On the other hand, it's fairly typical for newer "Hollywood" type movies that the martial arts are flavor of the month of what's on the N American scene, regardless of relevance to the historical milieu depicted; thus we've had the 3 musketeers using rapiers as if they were daito, and the opposite ridiculousness in old historical dramas with the sheild held to the rear, and sword in front; MacBeth using his spatha like a smallsword......sounds like this movie promulgates the ignorant popular idea of curved Islamic swords, and the glimpses of the commercials I've had may bear that out? Nice to hear it's not an antiMuslim hatefest, though.

25th November 2005, 12:50 PM	#11
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Brucetroy. You probably responded to my post before moving on through the thread, but i think you will find the answers to you questions in the discussion that followed.

26th December 2005, 10:44 PM	#12
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	add to the list, Bang-Rajan, an epic thai movie depicting the legendary villge of bang-rajan during the siam burmese war... lots and lots of sword fights and dhas...