Balinese hulu identification

[Marcokeris]

from the book about hilts by E.A.N. Van Veenendaal

[A. G. Maisey]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=rare+kumara

[milandro]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

from the book about hilts by E.A.N. Van Veenendaal

Thank you! the best way to teach is to give information without any attempt to deride ignorance

[A. G. Maisey]

I wrote something about these child totogans some time back for a friend, I'm sure he will not object to me sharing it.

In fact, once the fangs come into the picture, it is not Rare Kumara, but Rare Angon.

Here is a lift from what I wrote:-

"--- these naked little boy figures can be understood as either Sang Hyang Rare Kumara who was Siwa's son --- adopted I think --- or as Dewa Rare Angon, who is an aspect of Siwa himself.

In Javanese "rare" is the alternative spelling of "lare" which is literary usage for "young child". Javanese literary usage is mostly from Kawi, which in turn is mostly Sanskrit. Sanskrit formed a large part of Old Javanese (as distinct from Modern Javanese) and Modern Balinese is based upon Old Javanese & the indigenous Balinese languages.

In Balinese language the word "rare" (the final "e" is accented= Pron:- 'Rahreh') means a baby or a young child, but when we use it as a part of a name, it becomes the name. "Sang Hyang" is a title for a God, "sang" is an epithet, "hyang" is a Hindu God title, this "Sang Hyang" is often represented as simply "Dewa" = the short title for a deity.

There is a wayang story that involves Dewa Rare (ie, Sang Hyang Rare) that boils down to him escaping danger, so Dewa Rare is regarded as the God of children who protects children. He is a part of the Yadnya ceremony, and also at least one of the ceremonies performed for the safety of a baby , I think it might be the seventh ceremony, not sure.

The other way a Rare motif can be understood is as an aspect of Siwa (ie, Shiva). This is Rare Angon, whose other names are Mahakala and Rudra.
In this case I would expect to see a representation of fangs in the motif, because Rare Angon has a demonic nature.

He is the son of Siwa and Uma. Story is more or less like this:- Uma had sex with a cowherd whose name was Rare Angon, but in reality, Rare Angon was Siwa in disguise. Lots more to the story but not relevant to this motif.---"

[milandro]

I was wondering if this was the same figure as one I have just bought it is a man (adult) with one hand (right) holding his penis and the other one one of his buttock.

The carving is I think Indonesian and I have seen it before. It is mounted on a block of wood and MAY (but the hole where a stud to support it is not too deep) be even used on a kris with a short peksi

[milandro]

Originally Posted by milandro

I was wondering if this was the same figure as one I have just bought it is a man (adult) with one hand (right) holding his penis and the other one one of his buttock.

The carving is I think Indonesian and I have seen it before. It is mounted on a block of wood and MAY (but the hole where a stud to support it is not too deep) be even used on a kris with a short peksi

The object that I have ( I won’t post a picture because I intend to sell it) appears to be a betelnut chisel/crusher/pestel hilt.

The image may even be the one of the god mentioned above. I have found another one on line with an erected penis image , so it may not be as weird as I originally thought.

[A. G. Maisey]

Anthony, we are dealing with Rare Angon here, Rare Kumara does not have fangs, when we see the 'rare' form & we add fangs we have Rare Angon.

Rare Angon has other names, and first amongst those names is Rudra, we find Rudra in the Balinese Mandala, he is the God of the South West & his colour is orange. Rudra appears in the Vedas and was one of the contributing influences to the development of Siwa (Shiva).

Before Rudra was given the name "Rudra" by Brahma he was known as Mahadewa. After he was named as Rudra he then received seven other names:- Bhawa, Sarwa, Isono, Pasupati, Bhima, Ugra, & his original name: Mahadewa.

Then there is the relationship with Siwa.

Depending upon what sources we choose to accept, the names of Rudra can vary considerably, and also his existence as a single entity --- there can be multiple Rudras. For mainline Hindu relationships I prefer to use Dowson "A Classical Dictionary of Hindu Mythology", for Balinese relationships I use a number of different sources as well as stuff I've picked up from personal contact.

So, getting back to demons. I believe your Balinese friend was near enough with his "demon" attribution. Rare Angon has a demonic nature, as Rudra his nature has both a demonic aspect and a beneficial aspect.

Don't forget that when we are dealing with ordinary Balinese people they only have ordinary levels of understanding, even people whom we might expect would know & understand more are often somewhat ignorant and/or confused by all the iconography and the varied ways of understanding something.

To reach the level of understanding that is required to get some sort of understanding from Balinese expression we need Balinese specialists, usually Brahmins, or access to a very good library. Ordinary people, even very famous members of the Pande Clan are usually very limited in their understandings.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Anthony, we are dealing with Rare Angon here, Rare Kumara does not have fangs, when we see the 'rare' form & we add fangs we have Rare Angon.

Rare Angon has other names, and first amongst those names is Rudra, we find Rudra in the Balinese Mandala, he is the God of the South West & his colour is orange. Rudra appears in the Vedas and was one of the contributing influences to the development of Siwa (Shiva).

Before Rudra was given the name "Rudra" by Brahma he was known as Mahadewa. After he was named as Rudra he then received seven other names:- Bhawa, Sarwa, Isono, Pasupati, Bhima, Ugra, & his original name: Mahadewa.

Then there is the relationship with Siwa.

Depending upon what sources we choose to accept, the names of Rudra can vary considerably, and also his existence as a single entity --- there can be multiple Rudras. For mainline Hindu relationships I prefer to use Dowson "A Classical Dictionary of Hindu Mythology", for Balinese relationships I use a number of different sources as well as stuff I've picked up from personal contact.

So, getting back to demons. I believe your Balinese friend was near enough with his "demon" attribution. Rare Angon has a demonic nature, as Rudra his nature has both a demonic aspect and a beneficial aspect.

Don't forget that when we are dealing with ordinary Balinese people they only have ordinary levels of understanding, even people whom we might expect would know & understand more are often somewhat ignorant and/or confused by all the iconography and the varied ways of understanding something.

To reach the level of understanding that is required to get some sort of understanding from Balinese expression we need Balinese specialists, usually Brahmins, or access to a very good library. Ordinary people, even very famous members of the Pande Clan are usually very limited in their understandings.

Thanks Alan, this info of yours are good and I will add into my keris diary book.