14th-century samurai sword found in car at Swiss border

ariel · 2nd June 2022, 09:33 AM

Alan,
Yes, it is possible to buy a kris or any other stabber-slasher for $10 and sell it for $1,000, but I would venture to guess that no one of the Forum members ever sold or ( especially) bought a six figure USD sword. We are in a different league:-)

A. G. Maisey · 2nd June 2022, 11:24 AM

Ariel, I have never heard of buying a keris for $10 & then selling it for $1000.

But I have heard of & been involved with trade in keris that do sell for 5 & 6 figure US dollars.

US swords I know nothing at all about, most other edged weaponry I know very little about, but the top end of the keris market is something that I have had contact with for quite some time.

Japanese swords & etc I have had some slight contact with, although many years ago, I think I might have moved my last Japanese sword to a new owner about 30 years ago. It is a niche field and I realised that I just did not have either the time nor the intense interest needed to gain even a working knowledge in the area.

But I did have a lot of contact with specialist Japanese dealers and collectors over a lengthy period. Some of the values involved were quite exceptional.

ariel · 2nd June 2022, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

But I have heard of & been involved with trade in keris that do sell for 5 & 6 figure US dollars. .

Alan,
I stand corrected. Congratulations and my hat is off to you. You are a better man than I.

fernando · 2nd June 2022, 12:50 PM

Perhaps because the whole story smells a bit funny, it gives place to legitimate speculations. A couple further details would make it appear more plausible.
The date and price mentioned may be realistic, but do lack support; that certainly not the sudden expertise of the Swiss Customs in the Nihonto universe.
They say they found an invoice; was it the one covering the sword purchase, and was it so detailed as mentioning such explicit elements; what for? Do you send your driver (and his daughter) transport a sword between countries, with such revealing document ? Why not sending no invoice or one describing a (replica) sword made in China (right, Ariel ?).
Definitely something doesn't square ... if i may

Maybe one of these days we hear further from the press on this, other than the initial 'breaking news' article.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd June 2022, 01:18 PM

I thank you for your kind remarks Ariel, no matter how misdirected they might be.

My knowledge is quite concentrated, narrow, of the nature of knowing "more & more about less & less".

I have noted and admired your own extremely broad store of knowledge and have sometimes felt humbled by the depth of your understanding.

If either one of us is better than the other, something I most sincerely doubt, it is you who excel, not I.

gp · 2nd June 2022, 02:11 PM

what suprises me, is that there is no mentioning of any export documents!

Come on...as soon as an item crosses the Swiss border or any non-EU border into the EU or from the EU to a non_EU country, every one knows or should know you need to declare the export/import, unless one willingly tries to break the law...

And no one can say he or she is not aware as since the Brexit ou friends in Albion are terrrrribly hit by this....and so are we when doing bizniz with Albion.

Next to the fact that cusoms worldwide have the knowledge and expertise to value goods, regardless the "invoice" and the value stated.

Regardles what the background of this behaviour is or why, not a very cunning idea I would say ( with courtesy to Baldrick...)

fernando · 2nd June 2022, 03:05 PM

True he (the driver) should know about the Customs submission; but that complicates the story even further. Unless he intended (as instructed by his boss) to pass through with the object hidden somewhere inside the car; and the invoice was found while 'routine' searching and not intentionally shown by him to the Customs people. Still i find more plausible to read in the captured invoice about 'attributed' age and price of the sword an not that a Customs officer has the knowledge to figure out the difference between a regular katana and a high end piece from the XIV century 650.000 € worth ... with the due respect for Customs officials.

2nd June 2022, 01:18 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	I thank you for your kind remarks Ariel, no matter how misdirected they might be. My knowledge is quite concentrated, narrow, of the nature of knowing "more & more about less & less". I have noted and admired your own extremely broad store of knowledge and have sometimes felt humbled by the depth of your understanding. If either one of us is better than the other, something I most sincerely doubt, it is you who excel, not I. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 2nd June 2022 at 11:26 PM. Reason: grammar

2nd June 2022, 09:33 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Alan, Yes, it is possible to buy a kris or any other stabber-slasher for $10 and sell it for $1,000, but I would venture to guess that no one of the Forum members ever sold or ( especially) bought a six figure USD sword. We are in a different league:-)

2nd June 2022, 11:24 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Ariel, I have never heard of buying a keris for $10 & then selling it for $1000. But I have heard of & been involved with trade in keris that do sell for 5 & 6 figure US dollars. US swords I know nothing at all about, most other edged weaponry I know very little about, but the top end of the keris market is something that I have had contact with for quite some time. Japanese swords & etc I have had some slight contact with, although many years ago, I think I might have moved my last Japanese sword to a new owner about 30 years ago. It is a niche field and I realised that I just did not have either the time nor the intense interest needed to gain even a working knowledge in the area. But I did have a lot of contact with specialist Japanese dealers and collectors over a lengthy period. Some of the values involved were quite exceptional.

2nd June 2022, 12:50 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Perhaps because the whole story smells a bit funny, it gives place to legitimate speculations. A couple further details would make it appear more plausible. The date and price mentioned may be realistic, but do lack support; that certainly not the sudden expertise of the Swiss Customs in the Nihonto universe. They say they found an invoice; was it the one covering the sword purchase, and was it so detailed as mentioning such explicit elements; what for? Do you send your driver (and his daughter) transport a sword between countries, with such revealing document ? Why not sending no invoice or one describing a (replica) sword made in China (right, Ariel ?). Definitely something doesn't square ... if i may Maybe one of these days we hear further from the press on this, other than the initial 'breaking news' article.

2nd June 2022, 02:11 PM	#6
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 823	what suprises me, is that there is no mentioning of any export documents! Come on...as soon as an item crosses the Swiss border or any non-EU border into the EU or from the EU to a non_EU country, every one knows or should know you need to declare the export/import, unless one willingly tries to break the law... And no one can say he or she is not aware as since the Brexit ou friends in Albion are terrrrribly hit by this....and so are we when doing bizniz with Albion. Next to the fact that cusoms worldwide have the knowledge and expertise to value goods, regardless the "invoice" and the value stated. Regardles what the background of this behaviour is or why, not a very cunning idea I would say ( with courtesy to Baldrick...)

2nd June 2022, 03:05 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	True he (the driver) should know about the Customs submission; but that complicates the story even further. Unless he intended (as instructed by his boss) to pass through with the object hidden somewhere inside the car; and the invoice was found while 'routine' searching and not intentionally shown by him to the Customs people. Still i find more plausible to read in the captured invoice about 'attributed' age and price of the sword an not that a Customs officer has the knowledge to figure out the difference between a regular katana and a high end piece from the XIV century 650.000 € worth ... with the due respect for Customs officials.