BATAK OR BORNEO ???

Dajak · 11th June 2006, 10:08 PM

Hi Michael that why I started this

I don t now and can tell this is Borneo or Batak

so I think the plain Handles are Batak and the other Borneo

I like to get more information about this too

The one you get from me is for sure Batak it have an plain handle

VVV · 11th June 2006, 10:23 PM

Hi Dajak,

Sorry but I misunderstood your post.
As I wrote I don't think anybody for sure can separate your two swords.
The one with decorated handle could just as well be a trade blade.
The decoration on the Iban Pedang in Leiden, as well as the one in the Iban Art book, is different and more topographic as well as not floral.
But there are unfortunately just not enough documentation on this matter.

Michael

Dajak · 12th June 2006, 03:12 PM

that is right Michael but not only Iban people live on the coast it is well known that the Batang-Lupar did use these swords

So does not have an Iban design

and on an website I did find an decorated one from Borneo but never see an decorated one from the Bataks

Take a look at this Handle this one sure Borneo

VVV · 12th June 2006, 08:14 PM

Dajak,

That's a beautiful and rare Parang Nabur - congratulations on the nice find!
But to make it an indication, or a trend, unfortunately I think you have to find at least five of those that has survived or been documented somehow?
On the people living in the village of Batang Lupar they are classified as Sea Dayaks (Iban) according to Ling Roth.

Michael

ariel · 12th October 2017, 11:17 AM

Resurrecting it after 11 years:-)

I see that all Piso Podangs have trilobate endings of quillons.

Does it mean that ALL swords with trilobate quillons tips hail from Sumatra/Borneo/Malaysia? Do we know of genuinely Indian examples with such quillons?

After all, this type of handle came to the “Malay” world from India.

Also, all “Malay” Piso Podangs have bronze/brass handles. Any iron ones that we know?

CharlesS · 12th October 2017, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Also, all “Malay” Piso Podangs have bronze/brass handles. Any iron ones that we know?

Good point Ariel. Yes there are piso podangs with iron hilts and ones with mixed parts, say a brass grip and bronze pommel. I have had some of these variations in my collection, though the overwhelming majority have been all brass.

ariel · 12th October 2017, 03:41 PM

Thanks Charles!

Can you show Piso with iron handle that is verifiably “Malay”? After all, the cup-like pommel is old Indian: Jens showed a pic from Hamza-Nameh and Elgood
showed one from Brian Isaac in the chapter about “important swords”

As to bronze/brass distinction ... I have my, say, hesitations. Both are copper alloys and, taking into account rather primitive methods of smelting and contamination with various elements, it is often difficult to separate the two.

And what about the trilobate quillons tips?

12th June 2006, 03:12 PM	#3
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	that is right Michael but not only Iban people live on the coast it is well known that the Batang-Lupar did use these swords So does not have an Iban design and on an website I did find an decorated one from Borneo but never see an decorated one from the Bataks Take a look at this Handle this one sure Borneo Attached Images

12th October 2017, 11:17 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Resurrecting it after 11 years:-) I see that all Piso Podangs have trilobate endings of quillons. Does it mean that ALL swords with trilobate quillons tips hail from Sumatra/Borneo/Malaysia? Do we know of genuinely Indian examples with such quillons? After all, this type of handle came to the “Malay” world from India. Also, all “Malay” Piso Podangs have bronze/brass handles. Any iron ones that we know? Last edited by ariel; 12th October 2017 at 03:16 PM.

11th June 2006, 10:08 PM	#1
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Michael that why I started this I don t now and can tell this is Borneo or Batak so I think the plain Handles are Batak and the other Borneo I like to get more information about this too The one you get from me is for sure Batak it have an plain handle

11th June 2006, 10:23 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Dajak, Sorry but I misunderstood your post. As I wrote I don't think anybody for sure can separate your two swords. The one with decorated handle could just as well be a trade blade. The decoration on the Iban Pedang in Leiden, as well as the one in the Iban Art book, is different and more topographic as well as not floral. But there are unfortunately just not enough documentation on this matter. Michael

12th June 2006, 08:14 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Dajak, That's a beautiful and rare Parang Nabur - congratulations on the nice find! But to make it an indication, or a trend, unfortunately I think you have to find at least five of those that has survived or been documented somehow? On the people living in the village of Batang Lupar they are classified as Sea Dayaks (Iban) according to Ling Roth. Michael

12th October 2017, 03:41 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks Charles! Can you show Piso with iron handle that is verifiably “Malay”? After all, the cup-like pommel is old Indian: Jens showed a pic from Hamza-Nameh and Elgood showed one from Brian Isaac in the chapter about “important swords” As to bronze/brass distinction ... I have my, say, hesitations. Both are copper alloys and, taking into account rather primitive methods of smelting and contamination with various elements, it is often difficult to separate the two. And what about the trilobate quillons tips?