Circassian dagger from Turkey

ariel · 27th May 2022, 09:29 PM

The curved one is a Surmene knife, quite nice. The straight one is badly shortened, essentially dead, can’t say much about it, but can’t find anything Circassian.

gp · 27th May 2022, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The curved one is a Surmene knife, quite nice. The straight one is badly shortened, essentially dead, can’t say much about it, but can’t find anything Circassian.

Thnx, concerning the straight one I was also thinking a little in the direction of a khanjali from the Caucasus but also Turkey has traditional similar daggers in the Afyon region. I agree nothing Circassian.

francantolin · 29th May 2022, 09:26 AM

Really nice ottoman surmene knife !
Here another one.

I never saw one with silver niello parts,

east neighbours influence ...

ariel · 29th May 2022, 01:49 PM

Agree with Francantolin. Surmene is a Turkish town located in the Trabzon province , east of Trabzon proper, and is right smack in the center of Lazistan.
Whether Lazes are ethnically Muslim Georgians ( Georgian version), distinct sub-ethnicity of Turks ( Turkish version) or a separate ethnicity altogether is immaterial. Similarly, whether the technique of niello was transmitted from Lazes to Georgians or vice versa, or was brought to both by Greeks is currently impossible to figure out.

At the end of the day geography is the defining factor: Lazes and South Western Georgians lived next to each other by centuries, the borders were practically nonexistent and changed multiple times. Thus, it is not surprising that they shared decorative techniques.

It is a very pretty and old Surmene knife made for a well-off person.

27th May 2022, 09:29 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The curved one is a Surmene knife, quite nice. The straight one is badly shortened, essentially dead, can’t say much about it, but can’t find anything Circassian.

29th May 2022, 01:49 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Agree with Francantolin. Surmene is a Turkish town located in the Trabzon province , east of Trabzon proper, and is right smack in the center of Lazistan. Whether Lazes are ethnically Muslim Georgians ( Georgian version), distinct sub-ethnicity of Turks ( Turkish version) or a separate ethnicity altogether is immaterial. Similarly, whether the technique of niello was transmitted from Lazes to Georgians or vice versa, or was brought to both by Greeks is currently impossible to figure out. At the end of the day geography is the defining factor: Lazes and South Western Georgians lived next to each other by centuries, the borders were practically nonexistent and changed multiple times. Thus, it is not surprising that they shared decorative techniques. It is a very pretty and old Surmene knife made for a well-off person.